Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[discokermit]

it just seemed odd why she was adamant that she will not out this guy,

without him being convicted of it it would probably be libel.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

This particular topic would be best as a thread of its own rather than just a continuation of the Calinicos/Penny Red debate. The topic is current and relates to the Assange case and the other news items around rape connected to the American Election.

Can't the mods replicate the new topic as a new thread?

 

[The39thStep]

I am again drawn back to the fact that the worst treatment of women that I have ever encountered has been by men supposedly on the left, particularly the far left. The reasons are probably variable but I can’t help but think that the common belief that all forms of ethics are just so much dust thrown in the eyes of the workers has got something to do with it.

The worst was without doubt senior members of a certain Trot group striking a deal with a member who had been raped to expel her attacker for 2 years in return for her not going to the police. The girl who was attacked vanished about a year ago, no-one has heard anything since. I remember her saying that she knew he’d done it before and would do it again.

I swear there are people who believe being part of some pitiful left sect is enough to excuse all crimes in this world and guarantee their place the Kingdom of Heaven. Is all of this really that far from Pope Urban and the admonishment of sins?

So what is it in the left, particularly the far left, that causes this phenonema ? is it just confined to the left or does it include anarchists?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

So what is it in the left, particularly the far left, that causes this phenonema ? is it just confined to the left or does it include anarchists?

I haven't seen any evidence of this phenomenon outside of the apocryphal tale related by kavenism with his home-spun explanation.

 

[kavenism]

It may be home-spun but it makes sense.
Beware of men who need only one book and no ethics.

 

[butchersapron]

I am again drawn back to the fact that the worst treatment of women that I have ever encountered has been by men supposedly on the left, particularly the far left. The reasons are probably variable but I can’t help but think that the common belief that all forms of ethics are just so much dust thrown in the eyes of the workers has got something to do with it.

The worst was without doubt senior members of a certain Trot group striking a deal with a member who had been raped to expel her attacker for 2 years in return for her not going to the police. The girl who was attacked vanished about a year ago, no-one has heard anything since. I remember her saying that she knew he’d done it before and would do it again.

I swear there are people who believe being part of some pitiful left sect is enough to excuse all crimes in this world and guarantee their place the Kingdom of Heaven. Is all of this really that far from Pope Urban and the admonishment of sins?

You know this happened?

 

[kavenism]

You know this happened?

I know this happened. It's not second or third hand, it's from the horses mouth. The girl in question is an ex-partner of mine.

 

[butchersapron]

I know this happened. It's not second or third hand, it's from the horses mouth. The girl in question is an ex-partner of mine.

Do you know the trots doing the convincing?

 

[kavenism]

Do you know the trots doing the convincing?

Yup. They had already supported him through a protest related court case. It doesn't surprise me that given that fact they weren’t prepared to let him disgrace the lot of them with this, even though he was a known violent shit.

 

[butchersapron]

Yup. They had already supported him through a protest related court case. It doesn't surprise me that given that fact they weren’t prepared to let him disgrace the lot of them with this, even though he was a known violent shit.

Ta.Won't push on that any further. You know the rest.

 

[TruXta]

I don't think it's particular to Trots or anarchists, it's particular to sects and cults.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think it's particular to Trots or anarchists, it's particular to sects and cults.

It's not.

 

[TruXta]

It's not.

Not rape per se, but the form of sexual predation that kavenism describes is more easily sustainable in sects and cults. I'll try and dig up some refs.

 

[butchersapron]

Not rape per se, but the form of sexual predation that kavenism describes is more easily sustainable in sects and cults. I'll try and dig up some refs.

Don't worry, you're right. Diff claim that i was responding to, (congrats btw)

 

[cesare]

Not rape per se, but the form of sexual predation that kavenism describes is more easily sustainable in sects and cults. I'll try and dig up some refs.

I thought you meant small left groups for a second there

 

[JHE]

I can’t help but think that the common belief that all forms of ethics are just so much dust thrown in the eyes of the workers has got something to do with it.

Law, morality, religion, are to him [the proletarian] so many bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests.

The worst was without doubt senior members of a certain Trot group striking a deal with a member who had been raped to expel her attacker for 2 years in return for her not going to the police. The girl who was attacked vanished about a year ago, no-one has heard anything since. I remember her saying that she knew he’d done it before and would do it again.

Even if you choose not to name the individuals, you might at least name the sect. Was it the WRP in the days of Gerry Healy?

ETA: Sorry, if her disappearance was so recent, it obviously had nothing to do with Healy's sect. He's long gone. So, who?

 

[TruXta]

Don't worry, you're right. Diff claim that i was responding to, (congrats btw)

Thanks guv.

 

[barney_pig]

I think I know the incident which is being talked about by Kavenism. I know of another case as well in the same organisation- where the victim was eventually hounded out of the group.

 

[frogwoman]

Sorry to hear that CH. What happened to me was a bit different but like you having a healthy sexual relationship with somebody who loves me as much as I love him has helped me to realise just how out of order it was. I don't want to post about it much more, but hopefully if the assange case does any good it will mean that people can talk about this type of stuff more, because at the moment nobody likes to talk about it and it is all a big secret.

 

[love detective]

Re the Rape piece - the good news is that Laura has finally decided to report a name to the police

The bad news is that it's not the person who raped her, but someone of twitter who claimed that she was making the whole thing up

Then she's off to interview Tommy Robinson claiming

I just don't think 'an interview' is the same thing as 'giving a platform'

 

[DotCommunist]

Re the Rape piece - the good news is that Laura has finally decided to report a name to the police

The bad news is that it's not the person who raped her, but someone of twitter who claimed that she was making the whole thing up

Then she's off to interview Tommy Robinson claiming

I'm absolutely certain that an upper middle class girl interviewing a rabble rousing 'church and king' incoherent fash hoolie will only throw up epic nuggets of wisdom and show us all just how the roots of w/c fash emerge. I can't fucking wait.

Maybe they could invite Starkey and Bragg to the scintillating debate and really make it of relevance. Fuck me sideways, this is going to be bad.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm absolutely certain that an upper middle class girl interviewing a rabble rousing 'church and king' incoherent fash hoolie will only throw up epic nuggets of wisdom and show us all just how the roots of w/c fash emerge. I can't fucking wait.

Maybe they could invite Starkey and Bragg to the scintillating debate and really make it of relevance. Fuck me sideways, this is going to be bad.

reminds me of that horrendous Russell Brand sorts out the BNP incident

 

[audiotech]

reminds me of that horrendous Russell Brand sorts out the BNP incident

That wasn't all bad. I'm thinking of the random moment when some local Leeds lads in a pub garden spotted Brand with Collett and did a good job calling the BNP racist shit-stirrers, not wanted in the city. Even, Chris Beverley, then Leeds BNP super-cadre, probably there as a minder was lost for words flat footed.

 

[Delroy Booth]

What possible justification could there be for giving Tommy Robinson a platform in the New Statesman at this point in time?

2 years ago, when the EDL was new, I could just about understand it, but now? They're clearly a force on the wane, what's the point?

 

[tbtommyb]

Is there really anyone who doesn't consider what happened to Penny to be rape? the whole key element of the massive rape discussion over the last week was how doing x or y meant that it wasn't rape, 'bad manners' à la Galloway. But I read nothing that would ever have justified what happened to her.

 

[The39thStep]

That wasn't all bad. I'm thinking of the random moment when some local Leeds lads in a pub garden spotted Brand with Collett and did a good job calling the BNP racist shit-stirrers, not wanted in the city. Even, Chris Beverley, then Leeds BNP super-cadre, probably there as a minder was lost for words flat footed.

That would have happened without Brands embarrassing intervention and probably a lot earlier

 

[rekil]

Re the Rape piece - the good news is that Laura has finally decided to report a name to the police

The bad news is that it's not the person who raped her, but someone of twitter who claimed that she was making the whole thing up

This guy?



He didn't say she made it up. He said his 'issue was with Laurie using such a sensitive issue to further her media career'. I don't doubt she got genuinely awful shit via email and so on, but reporting this guy to the police would seem a tad unwise.

Elsewhere, Crabapple was featured in a CNN gallery about power or something. She said she was 'inspired by some graffiti from ages ago.' It's plagiarism dear.

2011 was a year of ecstatic rebellion. From Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street, people were shaking the foundations of power. But in 2012, we get to see what happens after that. In my "Big Fish Eat Little Fish Eat Big Fish" piece, I drew a metaphor for revolution and counter-revolution.

 

[tbtommyb]

What would she report him for?

 

[articul8]

What possible justification could there be for giving Tommy Robinson a platform in the New Statesman at this point in time?

2 years ago, when the EDL was new, I could just about understand it, but now? They're clearly a force on the wane, what's the point?

Judging by the Staggers' newstand sales it's not all that much of a platform.

 

[Orang Utan]

On a semi-related note, who is @blacbloc on twitter and what's going on? He seems to be having a meltdown after being accused of domestic violence and grassing activists to newspapers