Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
- Thread starter Prince Rhyus
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Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Agreed, that's a bloody good piece of work.
http://www.penny-red.com/post/29989130545/its-trigger-warning-week
And im not a usual Penny fan. She usually lacks the incisiveness and direction that this piece has.
http://www.penny-red.com/post/29989130545/its-trigger-warning-week
And im not a usual Penny fan. She usually lacks the incisiveness and direction that this piece has.
love detective
there's no love too small
probably best not to comment on this at all, but can't help thinking given her position of 'influence' in the left liberal media combined with the fact that she knows this person has done the same thing again to other women since it happened, her decision not to out this person is somewhat irresponsible
sure it's up to her what she does about it and she shouldn't be pressurrised into doing something she doesn't want to do - but it kind of pulls the rug away from all her 'sisterhood' type solidarity stuff when she has the power to stop this guy doing this to other women, but refuses to do so (yet still can talk about it enough to include it in a story and makes public tweets about it)
sure it's up to her what she does about it and she shouldn't be pressurrised into doing something she doesn't want to do - but it kind of pulls the rug away from all her 'sisterhood' type solidarity stuff when she has the power to stop this guy doing this to other women, but refuses to do so (yet still can talk about it enough to include it in a story and makes public tweets about it)
As someone who has been raped myself, that's a very brave piece.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Sorry to hear it.
Shit happens.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Me too, that's grim mate.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Sorry to hear that. I've been raped as well. I can relate to what she's saying in the article - it took me a very long time to realise the fact that it was rape and that the person responsible was "a rapist" because they didn't behave like how "a rapist" behaves and I still have trouble thinking of them like that. It was a long time ago and I'm not traumatised or anything and am now in a relationship with somebody I love, but I can relate to all the emotions that she talks about.
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Respek in your general direction.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
She's gone up a lot in my estimation after writing that. If it turns out she's made it up she'll sink to depths below even J hari. And probably lose all hope for a job in journalism tbh.
love detective
there's no love too small
i don't think there is any reason to even think that she has made any of that up - it just seemed odd to me how she was prepared to speak publicly about it and use it for one thing (writing about it) but not willing to out the person who she knows has done the same thing to other women since, and potentially will do it to others in the future (plus that person is apparently some kind of lefty)
i've never been in that position so don't know what doing such a thing would do to you personally/emotionally/psychologically so i shouldn't really be saying that i think she should do this or that - especially if it's something you've decided you just wanted to move on from and not talk about it - but she is talking about it, to 50,000 people on twitter
i've never been in that position so don't know what doing such a thing would do to you personally/emotionally/psychologically so i shouldn't really be saying that i think she should do this or that - especially if it's something you've decided you just wanted to move on from and not talk about it - but she is talking about it, to 50,000 people on twitter
i might be being extremely dense here, but wouldn't it be legally dodgy, to say the least? i suppose it depends on what you mean by 'outing' - naming them in the press? reporting them to the police?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
It reads very, very differently from her "probably made up" stuff.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
that was my thought exactly. the tone is very different.
For me it was part of abuse over a long time as a kid. I definitely knew him, not only as that, but as someone I liked, loved and trusted, and didn't think at the time that what he was doing was wrong, nor really understand it all. Not until much later, when after the denial began to untangle itself a mental breakdown resulted in an attempted suicide, and while recovering, a few relationships with women ruined by my unpredictable and at times aggressive behaviour. But I now have something really good and a healthy sexual relationship with the person I love.
Rapists or sexual predators aren't necessarily 'monsters' hiding in bushes or in dark alleys, waiting to pounce. Such opportunists do exist, but they're often 'normal,' everyday people. The people close to you in some way. As individuals, they have their own rationalisations for why they do it, and sadly it differs as to whether they even know or care about the damage they cause.
love detective
there's no love too small
did I say or imply it would be her fault if he raped someone else? He has raped someone else since then, have I implied anywhere that this was Laura's fault?
from my (admittedly small) experience of people who have been sexually assaulted, they don't want to report it to the police because they don't want to have to relive what happened to them and have what happened to them opened up to all kinds of prying eyes and impersonal systemic prodding. That is perfectly understandable that you would just want to blank it out/not let it get back in your head etc..
But if you are happy to give a detailed account of what happened to 50,000 people on twitter and and your blog, then it just seemed odd why she was adamant that she will not out this guy, both so that he is held to account for what he did to her and yes, to help make sure he doesn't do it to anyone else again.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Sorry to hear about your experiences. I find it stomach-churning to read about this, but I think it's important that we normalise talking about this and also realise that this kind of rape is also pretty "normal" and done by normal people. But also unacceptable.
In Sweden, in response to the Assange debate, a writer started the "Talk about it" discussion on the internet, to explore the gray zone in sexual experiences. it's worth taking a look: http://prataomdet.se/
--
Ibland känns det svårt, ja nästan omöjligt, att prata om negativa sexuella upplevelser. Bemötandet kan vara kyligt eller rentav fientligt mot dem som vill prata om det. Därför har många bitit sig i tungan och tvingats lägga locket på även om funderingarna fortsatt i det tysta.
Vi behöver ett språk för sex utan skam, vi behöver fundera kring våra egna och andras gränser. Vi behöver prata om de gränsdragningar, gråzoner och övertramp som förekommer i sexuella situationer. Något ska förändras. Vi ska våga
TruXta
tired
A worthy sentiment, but I can't see it going anywhere really, at least not for a long god-damned time.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Well it seemed to have gone somewhere for some people in Sweden, at least for a while.
TruXta
tired
On that site you mean? I didn't look so that could well be true. The true measure of success lies in taking it from the relative safety of the internet to flesh and blood interaction.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
it wasn't just a website. It started out as a hashtag on twitter, then a few articles in newspapers, and now a book. Hopefully it's helped at least some people speak out. The internet can be very good for telling stories in a safe space. Meatspace is overrated.
TruXta
tired
Yeah, had a look and saw that it was a bit more involved than that. I stand by my point about the importance of translating it into meatspace, but we're already well OT, and this is not the place for it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
It is really well written, but it is profoundly depressing in much the same way that hearing someone talk about how they lived through years of unreported domestic violence against them is.
I know she has made her feelings on reporting it known, but I really hope she changes her mind.
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
I am again drawn back to the fact that the worst treatment of women that I have ever encountered has been by men supposedly on the left, particularly the far left. The reasons are probably variable but I can’t help but think that the common belief that all forms of ethics are just so much dust thrown in the eyes of the workers has got something to do with it.
The worst was without doubt senior members of a certain Trot group striking a deal with a member who had been raped to expel her attacker for 2 years in return for her not going to the police. The girl who was attacked vanished about a year ago, no-one has heard anything since. I remember her saying that she knew he’d done it before and would do it again.
I swear there are people who believe being part of some pitiful left sect is enough to excuse all crimes in this world and guarantee their place the Kingdom of Heaven. Is all of this really that far from Pope Urban and the admonishment of sins?
The worst was without doubt senior members of a certain Trot group striking a deal with a member who had been raped to expel her attacker for 2 years in return for her not going to the police. The girl who was attacked vanished about a year ago, no-one has heard anything since. I remember her saying that she knew he’d done it before and would do it again.
I swear there are people who believe being part of some pitiful left sect is enough to excuse all crimes in this world and guarantee their place the Kingdom of Heaven. Is all of this really that far from Pope Urban and the admonishment of sins?
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