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Who does Urban think (not hope) will win the November US Presidential Election? (The Poll)

Who will win the popular vote and who will get a majority in the electoral college?


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Looking at polling for that election, Bush was ahead in the polls by the start of September. So Trump is a very long way behind him at the moment. Bush also enjoyed some 'rally behind the flag' effect from his disastrous wars and 'war on terror'. Even handled badly, a national crisis can be a positive for a leader. That's where Trump has potentially fucked it. Even with bad death numbers, he could have come out of this Covid-19 year with an enhanced reputation among enough people. Boris Johnson was more popular than ever as a thousand people a day were dying of C-19 here. Makes you despair really. :D
boris johnson would be even more popular today had he succumbed to the covid, whoever took over would have made even his great incompetence look in retrospect statesmanlike
 
Too close to call at the moment imo. Opinion surveys in the US (and England) have often under-reported the strength of conservative or reactionary sentiment.
 
A few months back when the lockdown started i was fairly confident trump was toast because of "it's the economy stupid". 6 months earlier than that i would have said trump would win. Now i'm in the "no fucking clue" camp.
 
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I had a gut feeling that Trump would win last time even though it made no sense
This time to be honest it's the same. But when I think about it intellectually, Trump is so terrible at the job. When they nominated Biden I just thought 'Oh that's it, Trump is nailed on', but Trump just constantly manages to surprise with his incompetence and foolishness. Democrats are bound to have some serious ammunition saved up for the election, the impeachment thing was so half hearted and this one is more respectable than the last one so far. Democrats have to be more evil than Trump, hope springs eternally
 
Starting to think that the worst outcome, in the longer term, would be a narrow win for the democrats and them just going basically well that was weird lets resume business as usual and forget that inexplicable thing that just happened out of the blue for 4 years. Either a massive landslide & real change to address some of the causes of which trump is a symptom or just maybe (in the long term) America might 'need' this to get worse before it can get better ?
As to what i think will happen am firmly in the no fucking clue club.
 
Starting to think that the worst outcome, in the longer term, would be a narrow win for the democrats and them just going basically well that was weird lets resume business as usual and forget that inexplicable thing that just happened out of the blue for 4 years. Either a massive landslide & real change to address some of the causes of which trump is a symptom or just maybe (in the long term) America might 'need' this to get worse before it can get better ?
Nah. The worse it gets, the bigger the hill to climb. Plus the rest of the planet can ill afford it.
 
Starting to think that the worst outcome, in the longer term, would be a narrow win for the democrats and them just going basically well that was weird lets resume business as usual and forget that inexplicable thing that just happened out of the blue for 4 years. Either a massive landslide & real change to address some of the causes of which trump is a symptom or just maybe (in the long term) America might 'need' this to get worse before it can get better ?
As to what i think will happen am firmly in the no fucking clue club.

The worst outcome would be Trump refusing to acknowledge the election

We like to think that USA has this stability that it doesn't have,
 
Nah. The worse it gets, the bigger the hill to climb. Plus the rest of the planet can ill afford it.
i dont know. Obviously its easy to say sitting in a comfy chair far away but look at Germany and how they are probably the least likely country ever to go full fascist again because they know the monster & have dealt with it. Anyway just idle musings. What caused trump wont go away just by people not looking at it and behaving like everything is fine, i think very possible that if the democrats win this time but nothing changes a new man will come along soon enough less idiotic and absurd than trump but recognising the fertile ground that the whole maga phenomenon has shown clearly exists there.
 
i dont know. Obviously its easy to say sitting in a comfy chair far away but look at Germany and how they are probably the least likely country ever to go full fascist again because they know the monster & have dealt with it.
They didn't deal with the monster, though. The monster took the country into a state of complete ruin, a process that cost tens of millions of lives.
 
i dont know. Obviously its easy to say sitting in a comfy chair far away but look at Germany and how they are probably the least likely country ever to go full fascist again because they know the monster & have dealt with it. Anyway just idle musings. What caused trump wont go away just by people not looking at it and behaving like everything is fine, i think very possible that if the democrats win this time but nothing changes a new man will come along soon enough less idiotic and absurd than trump but recognising the fertile ground that the whole maga phenomenon has shown clearly exists there.

Trump is like Covid, the practice run for the real thing
 
I think Biden will win handily. I think Trump will bottle it in the run up if it looks like it is going against him, and the core of his support will fall apart.
 
People seem to have forgotten what the Dubya presidency was like. Loads of people were predicting he didn't have a hope of a second term, but he won reasonably securely.
There's two big differences.
First, Bush's big liability was the ongoing clusterfuck was Iraq, which when all was said and done was thousands of iles and two whole continents away. COVID-19, and it's recession, is at home. Near every American home.
Second, Bush's polls actually held up well throughout 2004.
 
I think Biden will win pretty comfortably tbh. I don't see how Trump gains votes anywhere - he might have a rabid base but they're not increasing in numbers. And I think he'll have lost a fair few votes on the way as he hasn't backed up his promises at all, those who are happy with the rage and racism will still vote for him of course, those in the swing states who might have listened to his promises to bring back the old industries, maybe not. On the other side I don't see Biden bringing out many additional voters but I think there'll be a more motivated anti-Trump vote this time, and the numbers needed to swing it are pretty small really. Those key states where Trump had small majorities last time are going to be very hard for him to defend IMO.
 
look at Germany and how they are probably the least likely country ever to go full fascist again because they know the monster & have dealt with it.
hmm...not so sure they have. The radical right, in the form of the AfD and various far right groupings, has been resurgent for the best part of the past 2 decades. And even before that there were regular outbreaks of neonazi and neofash activity, encopassing everything from firebombings, assassinations, attacks on members of ethnic minorities and acts of vandalism
 
FWIW though, I found this article by Richard Seymour a couple of months ago pretty convincing (C&P'd cause it's a paid for article on his patreon)

Biden could win a landslide by accident

Let's not overstate the significance of a poll putting Biden fourteen points ahead. It's one poll. But there is an average. And currently, the polling average puts Biden about ten points ahead of Trump. He has recovered the ground lost since the start of this year. The combination of demoralising blunders, half-asleep statements, and the sexual assault allegation against him had shown him to be a poor candidate. But since last month, his lead over Trump has been expanding. There's a chance that this profoundly awful candidate could, not only win, but win with a landslide. And, much as Starmer seems to be determined only to gain from Tory failure by accident, Biden's victory could be the biggest fluke in history.
Why do I say 'landslide'? After all, Clinton also had occasionally huge leads over Trump. Indeed, she won a plurality. She had millions more votes than Trump, and still lost. And she was far more competent, verbally dextrous, and appealing to a certain online fandom, than Biden. The corrupt nature of her primary victory demoralised a section of the left-wing vote, and grassroots activists, and that probably contributed to the Democrats' ultimate inability to win key swing states. But is anyone happier with the way Biden won? The way the Democratic establishment finally rallied round the monumentally unqualified Biden, and the way the media turned absolutely hysterical in its fear of 'socialism', was capped by the Democrats cynically persisting in staging primary elections during the Covid-19 outbreak because they knew it would depress turnout and finish off Sanders for good. The bulk of the Left is not going to campaign for, or support, Joe Biden. On top of that, while Biden has been completely incapable of enthusing the base, Trump has shown his usual skill in polarising the electorate to his advantage. His support base is stable, and he knows how to exploit confusion and despair on the other side. And with the combination of Democrat-backed austerity programmes destroying the left-vote, and Republican voter-suppression programmes, it is easy to see how Trump could romp it again.
So, why 'landslide'? First, Trump's victory in 2016 obscured the underlying, long-term shift against the Right. That's why the Republicans have thrown everything behind Trump, because white nationalism and violent incitement against 'the Left', 'Antifa', and various black politicians is their only electoral defence against these trends. It is also why they're fighting so hard to encircle and suppress the democratic elements of the state, and build up the dominance of reactionaries in, eg, the Supreme Court. They know they're losing. Trump's core vote is stable, but it's a minority.
Second, the hard-centre has secured its institutional dominance over the Left for now, but not unilaterally. The Democratic establishment almost didn't pull it together. They rallied to Biden as their candidate at the last minute, after an intervention by Obama, but that almost didn't happen. And the party managers still aren't getting everything their own way: how could they when Sanders was so popular, and Biden is so ineffectual? Look at the victories for the New York left in recent primaries, in which Jamaal Bowman, AOC and Julia Salazar scored towering leads. Bowman's crushing victory over Elliot Engel, a sixteen-term incumbent, and ideologically fanatical warmonger, is particularly sweet. Even in Kentucky, an operator like Amy McGrath with close links to Chuck Schumer, could potentially lose to Charles Booker, whose campaign has benefited from Black Lives Matter protests. Nor is the centre winning the battle for popular opinion and culture, which is skewing well to the left of Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo and Gavin Newsom. Indeed, the only way it could secure total dominance over the Left would be through the victory of reaction, or through a demoralisation so pervasive that it guaranteed the victory of reaction. The early phase of the pandemic, and the contagion of mutual aid and grassroots organising that followed from it, showed that this hadn't happened.
And since May, the trends have accelerated rapidly away from capitalist realism. The Black Lives Matter protests have exploded in hundreds of cities, have won dozens of demands and reforms, big and small, and catalysed a major cultural shift that was already well under way. Hundreds of strikes have broken out across the US since March, often in the least organised workplaces, over Covid safety and racism. With forty million unemployed across the US, and the rest of the workforce more precarious and vulnerable to wage depression as a result, and with the state embroiled in a legitimacy crisis heightened by its dysfunctional handling of the plague, the pandemic has precipitated underlying sources of radicalisation. That is the context in which Biden's lead over Trump is rising. He hasn't done a thing to cause it himself. No one, as far as I can see, is arguing that he has made a game-changing speech, or is even running a particularly vigorous campaign. Biden would be the ancillary beneficiary of a social upheaval that he doesn't like, and doesn't support.
This situation is fragile, and volatile, and sharp reversals are the norm. Republicans are confident, even to the point of expecting a Trump landslide. Trump is already vastly outspending Biden. Sure, there's some performativity, bombast, bullshit and illusion in the confidence of local Republicans. Sure, spending money doesn't guarantee anything. Nonetheless, recall that Trump required only a few months of campaign season to melt Clinton's lead down to two points, and game the electoral college in his favour when he was himself being outspent. And his attack instincts remain sharp. The Antifa conspiracy theories will likely be followed by signal-boosting the popular theory that Soros is orchestrating Black Lives Matter. He will galvanise the vigilante hardcore, and derail media attention. He will use moments of state violence against protesters to burnish his credentials as a defender of middle-class property and suburban safety. And he can rely on the Democrats to do nothing to defend the movement as he tries to crush it. Moreover, if he sparks a lone wolf murder or two, his base doesn't seem to mind. Finally, debate season will arrive, and he will have the chance to bully and humiliate a confused and degenerating opponent. Everything now happening to build Biden's lead can be reversed. Thus far, incumbency has been kind to the nationalist right and, until recently, it has been kind to Trump.
However, we can't take for granted the coordinates of before-Covid-19. The tendency of ruptures to break in favour of the Right has been a contingent outcome, a trend rooted in circumstances that have now been upended. The deepest crisis of capitalism in its history is still in its early days. The political effects of mass unemployment and accelerating class inequality are going to work themselves out over a decade, not a couple of months. And at the moment, the way trends are going, it is now entirely plausible that Biden could stumble into a landslide.
 
I think (and hope) that Biden will win. At the last election though I expected Hilary to win (not that I cared). I don't actually want Biden I would just like to see the back of President Clusterfuck. I suspect that Biden's main claim to fame in the history books 50-100 years from now will be a couple of sentences saying he was the POTUS who came immediately after the worst one and immediately before the first female one.
Trump I suspect will get his own volume(s), Historians, scriptwriters and political pundits will be writing about Trump decades after his death which is probably one thing he really wants.
 
I think Biden will win pretty comfortably tbh. I don't see how Trump gains votes anywhere - he might have a rabid base but they're not increasing in numbers. And I think he'll have lost a fair few votes on the way as he hasn't backed up his promises at all, those who are happy with the rage and racism will still vote for him of course, those in the swing states who might have listened to his promises to bring back the old industries, maybe not. On the other side I don't see Biden bringing out many additional voters but I think there'll be a more motivated anti-Trump vote this time, and the numbers needed to swing it are pretty small really. Those key states where Trump had small majorities last time are going to be very hard for him to defend IMO.

The problem is not people voting for Trump, it's that people won't vote for Biden. A lot of people hated Hillary Clinton and refused to vote for her, that is how Trump was voted in. I don't think people hate Joe Biden, but he is a ridiculous candidate. If he was poor he'd be in a care home
 
I think it it will be decided by one or more faithless electors. Seven electors from the college changed their vote last time round (three went to Colin Powell and one each to John Kasich, Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders and Faith Spotted Eagle).
 
The problem is not people voting for Trump, it's that people won't vote for Biden. A lot of people hated Hillary Clinton and refused to vote for her, that is how Trump was voted in. I don't think people hate Joe Biden, but he is a ridiculous candidate. If he was poor he'd be in a care home

For sure - Biden is an awful candidate. That's what I mean about the motivated anti-trump vote though. I think having seen a first term of him, and against the background of his handling of the Coronavirus, a lot of people who didn't vote for Clinton will hold their noses and vote for Biden, despite him rather than because of him.
 
For sure - Biden is an awful candidate. That's what I mean about the motivated anti-trump vote though. I think having seen a first term of him, and against the background of his handling of the Coronavirus, a lot of people who didn't vote for Clinton will hold their noses and vote for Biden, despite him rather than because of him.
A clothespeg election victory to Biden would be a good result - a la Chirac over Le Pen. Don't know how much that could take off in the US?
 
I can't believe people* are voting option 1, that Trump will win the popular vote, when he lost it last time by about 3 million.

OK, there's some doubt about the electoral college outcome, but I can't see there's anyway he'll win the popular vote.

* With the exception of Marty1, who seems so far up Trump's arse, that I expect him to crawl out of his mouth when the results are declared.
 
we're all just making it up man. don't imagine your take is any less of a bullshit hunch than mine.
Ok fair enough, this is all speculation. However, mine is based on some things that seem good bets, and some things we do know.

The good bets; Biden will sweep the west coast and New england, plus hawaii (cos it always votes dem, strongly so), DC (ditto, but ove rwhelmingly so), Colorado (really liberal sorta state), New Mexico and Nevada (won in last three contests, plus growing latino base). Equally, Trump will walk away with the South (the GOP always does, for unpleasant reasons) and the rural states of the west (GOP stronghold since time immemorial). Therefore, the rustbelt/midwest, plus Florida, Arizona and Texas will be the crucial swing states.
Second, thaniks to COVID, life will be significantly shittier by the time November 3rd rolls round

Now to what we know. Of the EC votes that got Trump home last time, Biden only actually needs to win in Pennsylvania (his home state, in that he was born and grew up there) and Michigan, plus to hold all the states HRC won last time. That gets him to a magical 272 EC votes, out of a total 538 electoral college votes.
Right now, in terms of opinion polls, he is ahead in texas (once inconceivable for any Democrat whose initaials weren't LBJ), ahead in Arizona and florida, and in a very comfortable, even commanding lead in Michigan, pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Of course, this is all speculation. Literally anything can happen between now and November.
But on these two bases, trump will still get an awful lot ofr votes - but Biden will get to at least 270.
That's all he needs
 
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a lot of people who didn't vote for Clinton will hold their noses and vote for Biden, despite him rather than because of him.
An awful lot of them will. Firstly, all the Sanders supporters who threw an epic tantie last time and refused to vote for HRC, will vote for Biden. Second, that part of the American electorate that simply loathed everything about HRC (quite a lot of people, in truth), simply don't feel that strongly about Biden.
 
I think it it will be decided by one or more faithless electors. Seven electors from the college changed their vote last time round (three went to Colin Powell and one each to John Kasich, Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders and Faith Spotted Eagle).
They won't do that this timew, the stakes are so high they are aware - as is everyone4 else - that the pitchforks and flamin g torches could come into view, metaphorically speaking
 
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