Who will win the 2024 US election?
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
It's 2016 all over again, both Brexit and Trump (1st time). We've been over these arguments ad nauseum, yet still folk feel that cos they're doing OK everyone else should be happy with their lot. Isn't a definition of madness.,..etc...
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Protag
Fan of think
Oh, I'm sure you will love the analysis.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
have you parsed it yet?
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Judging on your previous efforts, I doubt it.
Protag
Fan of think
It's kinda difficult. He is a progressivist weathercock of the age. Or a cock, to be accurate.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Monbiot can be pretty incisive when it comes to critiques of empire. IMO his ideas about agriculture are misguided and wrongheaded, but in other areas he can be surprisingly insightful.It's kinda difficult. He is a progressivist weathercock of the age. Or a cock, to be accurate.
Protag
Fan of think
Trump has pledged to wage war on planet Earth – and it will take a progressive revolution to stop him | George Monbiot
Voters have never been swayed by ‘rational debate’. Only a genuine change in the way we do politics can prevent the march of the right, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot
Just a quick pound shop mild Marxoid analysis:
He is not against Empire. Like a typical bourgeois progressive, he only moans when the Republicans are in charge. Remember his bizarre spat with Chomsky.
He is apparently against plutocracy, but his "solution" is to devolve democratic institutions. Again, this is not a solution. Plus, there is no guarantee that the public will believe in the same bourgeois progressivist concerns as himself, even if "capitalists" are not driving the debate.
He uses the theory that the public are "irrational", presumably for voting for Republicans. Note that this theory is usually made against democracy. But it doesn't fit with his concern with plutocracy, either.
In the end, bourgeois progressivists are only happy when they get their way.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
In all of the gloom there is always a ray of hope
Not true.
The US was lucky to get Trump – Biden may pave the way for a more competent autocrat | George Monbiot
The president-elect must be willing to fight big money and redistribute wealth, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot
His spat with Chomsky, you're presumably responding to him criticising Chomsky for allegedly downplaying the Srebrenica massacre and Rwanda genocide. Not sure how this means he is "pro-Empire."
Why is it not a solution?
"There is no guarantee that the public will believe..."
That is true of any voting. So you are against voting in general and want a dictatorship?
More localised democracy allows people to negotiate tangibles. The flaw with modern democracy is its abstraction from daily life. I'd argue that the individualisation of society - and decline of group membership, especially unions - has weakened democracy by taking away clearly defined interests which can be negotiated (e.g. interests of unionised steel workers versus interests of their employers), which allows emotionally charged irrationality such as conspiracy theories and nationalist fantasies to fill the vacuum. Reform of democratic institutions to focus more on local issues that people are connected to is what the left should focus on IMO.
Historical materialism is basically against us, the conditions that gave rise to unions and the labour movement have gone and globalisation makes them unlikely to return.
But it is possible to change the tide of history through institutional reform. The French Revolution established the rule of law and the modern nation state, and the foundation of democratic and therefore socialist political forms. This didn't happen organically as a natural result of the rise of the bourgeoisie, but was planned and considered and was not all about the interests of the bourgeoisie either.
I think the left needs to take some inspiration from that in terms of thinking about what sort of institutions we need to build to revitalise democracy, and focus on democratic renewal and reform first.
P.S. I don't see anything "Marxoid" about your analysis, reads more like shallow red-brown Grayzone crap.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
It's not just the failure to cultivate new leadership talent. It's also an unwillingness of the old guard to make room for the new. It's a bit ironic that the main person developing Democratic party talent is Bernie Sanders, who isn't even a Democrat.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Over 70 million Americans voted for Trump. Struggling not to think ill of any of them for doing so.
They’re either stupid, gullible or just hateful bigoted cunts.
Is there a more charitable view of Trump voters? I cannot fathom how people think.
We’re fucked
They’re either stupid, gullible or just hateful bigoted cunts.
Is there a more charitable view of Trump voters? I cannot fathom how people think.
We’re fucked
Agrippa57
Still European. And Richie Blackmore is God
Yep.
Are they waiting for his corpse to wash in? Always hated the utter twat but that's well harsh.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Don't know if this Jacobin article has been posted yet. It's a fairly solid read on how shit the Democrats are. Democratic Party Elites Brought Us This Disaster
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
He said something about how he'd drive his car over the Cliffs of Moher if Trump made it through a second time.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
That's a very good read. I've hardly kept up with politics at all the past couple of years, so found this to be a very good explanation. I was actually open-mouthed at some points reading just how shit their campaign was.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
The party definitely needs to sort itself out after voters rejected their candidate while approving these policies:
Voters in Trump-voting Missouri and Alaska have approved or are on the way to approving ballot measures raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour and instituting paid sick leave (another popular measure Harris declined to run on).
The minimum wage and sick leave amendment passed by almost 60% in Missouri
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Oh god, I've just all the ballot initiatives involving animals in this election and virtually all of them are terrible from an animal protection perspective. In Florida the denizens of that shit hole voted against abortion rights but instead voted to enshrine hunting as a constitutional right. In Colorado, a more progressive state, the populace voted against an initiative that would have banned trophy hunting big cats. What the fuck? That's such low hanging fruit! I don't like feeling misanthropic but our species - and yanks in particular it seems - are such a selfish, violent, short-sighted gang of bastards.
Protag
Fan of think
There you go, that explains your argument. Thanks
Protag
Fan of think
What's Marxist about your "analysis" then?
Protag
Fan of think
I think it is obvious with the term 'bourgeois progressivism', methinks. And it is not a coincidence that the "f" card is thrown about for non-believers. Republicans are fascists, Greyzone are red-brownists, etc. It takes about 10 seconds of thought to realise what is going on.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
If it makes you feel better. Nebraska just legalized medical marijuana. I never thought I'd see that. Now, we'll have to see if the legislature finds some way around it. I'm sure they'll try.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Some advocates of the kind of “democracy” that exists in countries such as the USA and Great Britain argue that if you do not like the government, then you can remove it. Many people in the USA did not like the government, and voted to remove it. That they were voting against the government does not mean that they were voting FOR Trump.
If your government is so unpopular that people are prepared to vote for someone like Donald Trump, then you ought to ask yourself where you have gone wrong.
Many people in the USA are suffering economic distress. How do we expect them to vote?
Those people in this country who say things like “but the US economy is growing” are ignorant of the problem, the problem that this growth is not benefitting everyone.
Those in this country who advocate voting Harris and say “she is not perfect” seem to be oblivious to the fact that it is the dispensation that Biden and Harris endorse that has provided the fuel for the growth of Trumpism.
If your government is so unpopular that people are prepared to vote for someone like Donald Trump, then you ought to ask yourself where you have gone wrong.
Many people in the USA are suffering economic distress. How do we expect them to vote?
Those people in this country who say things like “but the US economy is growing” are ignorant of the problem, the problem that this growth is not benefitting everyone.
Those in this country who advocate voting Harris and say “she is not perfect” seem to be oblivious to the fact that it is the dispensation that Biden and Harris endorse that has provided the fuel for the growth of Trumpism.
Another good piece.
“
In the West, neoliberalism — that blend of free trade, deregulation and deference to financial markets — hollowed-out communities while enriching a global oligarchy. Meanwhile, a homogenized and often crass popular culture eroded traditional national and religious identities. After 9/11, the war on terror was embraced by autocrats such as Mr. Putin, who used it as a frame to justify power grabs while forever wars fueled mass migration. The financial crisis came through like a hurricane, wrecking the lives of people already struggling to get by while the rich profited on the back end. Then social media’s explosion offered a vehicle to spread grievance and conspiracy theories, allowing populist leaders to radicalize their followers with the precision of an algorithm.
The playbook for transforming a democracy into a soft autocracy was clear: Win power with a populist message against elites. Redraw parliamentary districts. Change voting laws. Harass civil society. Pack courts with judges willing to support power grabs. Enrich cronies through corruption. Buy up newspapers and television stations and turn them into right-wing propaganda. Use social media to energize supporters. Wrap it up in an Us versus Them message: Us, the “real” Russians or Hungarians or Americans, against a rotating cast of Them: the migrants, the Muslims, the liberals, the gays, George Soros and on and on.”
www.nytimes.com
“
In the West, neoliberalism — that blend of free trade, deregulation and deference to financial markets — hollowed-out communities while enriching a global oligarchy. Meanwhile, a homogenized and often crass popular culture eroded traditional national and religious identities. After 9/11, the war on terror was embraced by autocrats such as Mr. Putin, who used it as a frame to justify power grabs while forever wars fueled mass migration. The financial crisis came through like a hurricane, wrecking the lives of people already struggling to get by while the rich profited on the back end. Then social media’s explosion offered a vehicle to spread grievance and conspiracy theories, allowing populist leaders to radicalize their followers with the precision of an algorithm.
The playbook for transforming a democracy into a soft autocracy was clear: Win power with a populist message against elites. Redraw parliamentary districts. Change voting laws. Harass civil society. Pack courts with judges willing to support power grabs. Enrich cronies through corruption. Buy up newspapers and television stations and turn them into right-wing propaganda. Use social media to energize supporters. Wrap it up in an Us versus Them message: Us, the “real” Russians or Hungarians or Americans, against a rotating cast of Them: the migrants, the Muslims, the liberals, the gays, George Soros and on and on.”
Opinion | I Study Guys Like Trump. There’s a Reason They Keep Winning.
Democrats walked into the trap of defending the very institutions most Americans distrust.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Another good piece.
“
In the West, neoliberalism — that blend of free trade, deregulation and deference to financial markets — hollowed-out communities while enriching a global oligarchy. Meanwhile, a homogenized and often crass popular culture eroded traditional national and religious identities. After 9/11, the war on terror was embraced by autocrats such as Mr. Putin, who used it as a frame to justify power grabs while forever wars fueled mass migration. The financial crisis came through like a hurricane, wrecking the lives of people already struggling to get by while the rich profited on the back end. Then social media’s explosion offered a vehicle to spread grievance and conspiracy theories, allowing populist leaders to radicalize their followers with the precision of an algorithm.
The playbook for transforming a democracy into a soft autocracy was clear: Win power with a populist message against elites. Redraw parliamentary districts. Change voting laws. Harass civil society. Pack courts with judges willing to support power grabs. Enrich cronies through corruption. Buy up newspapers and television stations and turn them into right-wing propaganda. Use social media to energize supporters. Wrap it up in an Us versus Them message: Us, the “real” Russians or Hungarians or Americans, against a rotating cast of Them: the migrants, the Muslims, the liberals, the gays, George Soros and on and on.”
Opinion | I Study Guys Like Trump. There’s a Reason They Keep Winning.
Democrats walked into the trap of defending the very institutions most Americans distrust.
The article appears to be paywalled.
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