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US election 2020 thread

pretty interesting stuff, all the court cases that have been had over compelling kids to pledge alliegange to the flag under god. But not quite on topic.
In conclusion, america is weird.
Looks a bit dodgy to me.

Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
 
Christ.

Wonder what's going to happen if they suddenly have a new President? Get that local law enforcement isn't under sole control of the White House, but they've been up to a lot of shit that (hopefully) wouldn't get the support of a Biden administration they way it has under a Trump one.
Police unions have been outspoken in their endorsements of the President. Make of that what you will
 
Are there any schools that don't do the pledge of alliegance?

Almost half so I read somewhere recently. That's still half too many obviously but...

...apparently the easy way out of it is to be a Jehovah's Witness. They see God's kingdom as government so won't salute any flag or sing nationalistic songs.


Other drawbacks may be available however...
 
it's pre-nazi.
but i don't like it either.
It says 1941, so not pre-nazi but it's wiki so obviously can't be sure of the exact date. Glad your school doesn't do nonsensical stuff like pledges.

I've always been puzzled by the flag thing though - it does come across as weird. It's relatively unusual to see the union flag flying apart from on government buildings - for many years it had associations with the far-right, but that seems to have gradually faded.
 
Christ.

Wonder what's going to happen if they suddenly have a new President? Get that local law enforcement isn't under sole control of the White House, but they've been up to a lot of shit that (hopefully) wouldn't get the support of a Biden administration they way it has under a Trump one.

I predict that nothing will happen. There needs to be some US equivalent to a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but establishment Dems will avoid shit like that as if it were the plague or a homeless person. They're more interested in securing wealth transfers to big business, or in further constructing and maintaining the nightmarish domestic spying apparatus and security-industrial complex, in collaboration with Silicon Valley.

I think there really needs to be more talk about this. It's not over if/when the Dems win the election, far from it.
 
careful here, the US' gov't policy was what we would today call old-conservative before that: pretty much hands-off except in NA and SA. it took the bombing of pearl harbor to get us into the war, since we hadn't been attacked yet.
So pretty much like current government policy - fuck everyone else until you're attacked.
 
OK so we're not far off 48 hours away from close of polls in the first eastern states and the NYT just released a load of high quality state level polling with big sample numbers (like well over 1000 interviews in each state). So where are we at?

Donald Trump won in 2016 because he won surprising - and surprisingly narrow - victories in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. He is exceedingly unlikely to flip any of the states Clinton won this time around so his path to retaining the Presidency rests on keeping these three states (and all the others he won of course).

NYT has Wisconsin as a +11 for Biden. There was a +17 for Biden in the state recently which is probably a massive outlier but with Covid rampaging through the state, this looks like a lost cause for the President. The same can be said for Michigan where NYT and ABC both had Joe Biden up by between 5 & 8 points the other day. Other polls show even bigger leads in the state. The Upper Midwest is done.

Pennsylvania... should be OK as well. NYT have Biden up by 6 in a poll of over 1800 likely voters, outside the margin of error. The issue with Pennsylvania is around counting votes and court cases. The state will likely not even be close to a final total until Friday and the GOP are making noises about the Dems 'stealing' back the likely election day deficit when the mail vote is counted. Obviously this isn't stealing but it's being set up for muddied waters.

However, while Trump pretty much HAS to win Pennsylvania in order to be returned to the White House, there's another route for Joe Biden if he loses there and it runs through Arizona. NYT just polled over 1200 people there and put Biden up by... 6 points. That's pretty hefty and outside the margin of error. The interesting thing is that in recent years polls in the south west have tended to understate the Democratic vote - possibly because polling Latinos is a challenge for pollsters. It does look very much like Arizona could go blue for the first time in decades and take Biden to 269 electoral college votes even without Pennsylvania - and with credible polls of Nebraska's second congressional district showing Trump behind by between 3 & 12 points then that's 270 and the Presidency for Biden.

Of course Biden also has small but fairly consistent leads in North Carolina, Georgia and Florida. And then there's Texas - which I still really don't want to call - and Ohio and Iowa which are at least feasible for Biden. Any of those would be the icing on the cake but at this point I just don't see how Biden doesn't get to 270. Not with those leads, at this stage of the game and with no real political (as opposed to legal) challenges in front of him. He is undoubtedly going to win the popular vote by more than Clinton did and he will win enough states to take the White House - he may even get way past 300 EC votes and even past 400 if Texas falls.

None of this accounts for legal fuckery of course. But if the win is big enough and early enough, there is no way that even those judges can steal this for their guy.
 
OK so we're not far off 48 hours away from close of polls in the first eastern states and the NYT just released a load of high quality state level polling with big sample numbers (like well over 1000 interviews in each state). So where are we at?

Donald Trump won in 2016 because he won surprising - and surprisingly narrow - victories in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. He is exceedingly unlikely to flip any of the states Clinton won this time around so his path to retaining the Presidency rests on keeping these three states (and all the others he won of course).

NYT has Wisconsin as a +11 for Biden. There was a +17 for Biden in the state recently which is probably a massive outlier but with Covid rampaging through the state, this looks like a lost cause for the President. The same can be said for Michigan where NYT and ABC both had Joe Biden up by between 5 & 8 points the other day. Other polls show even bigger leads in the state. The Upper Midwest is done.

Pennsylvania... should be OK as well. NYT have Biden up by 6 in a poll of over 1800 likely voters, outside the margin of error. The issue with Pennsylvania is around counting votes and court cases. The state will likely not even be close to a final total until Friday and the GOP are making noises about the Dems 'stealing' back the likely election day deficit when the mail vote is counted. Obviously this isn't stealing but it's being set up for muddied waters.

However, while Trump pretty much HAS to win Pennsylvania in order to be returned to the White House, there's another route for Joe Biden if he loses there and it runs through Arizona. NYT just polled over 1200 people there and put Biden up by... 6 points. That's pretty hefty and outside the margin of error. The interesting thing is that in recent years polls in the south west have tended to understate the Democratic vote - possibly because polling Latinos is a challenge for pollsters. It does look very much like Arizona could go blue for the first time in decades and take Biden to 269 electoral college votes even without Pennsylvania - and with credible polls of Nebraska's second congressional district showing Trump behind by between 3 & 12 points then that's 270 and the Presidency for Biden.

Of course Biden also has small but fairly consistent leads in North Carolina, Georgia and Florida. And then there's Texas - which I still really don't want to call - and Ohio and Iowa which are at least feasible for Biden. Any of those would be the icing on the cake but at this point I just don't see how Biden doesn't get to 270. Not with those leads, at this stage of the game and with no real political (as opposed to legal) challenges in front of him. He is undoubtedly going to win the popular vote by more than Clinton did and he will win enough states to take the White House - he may even get way past 300 EC votes and even past 400 if Texas falls.

None of this accounts for legal fuckery of course. But if the win is big enough and early enough, there is no way that even those judges can steal this for their guy.
On top of that, if you want an idea of how the Biden campaign sees the race then the fact that Kamala Harris was in Texas the other day, Biden in Iowa and tomorrow he's going to be in Ohio - all at the outer edge of their range - should tell you what they're thinking. Clinton made the error of continuing to bash away at lost causes while failing to shore up Wisconsin, Michigan etc and you could argue this risks the same... however, as per my last sentence, their win needs to be big and decisive so it's understandable that they are playing to win in every state that's within reach. It may even be vital to avoid shenanigans in the aftermath
 
My predictions

Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, South Carolina and Florida to stay red.
Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona to go blue
 
Aaaaaaand, for balance:



Bit of a shocker that one, not necessarily because the state is especially important (if it goes Blue then the game's long been up for DT) but because the same poll a month ago had them tied and if Biden's gone backwards here then there could be trouble in Wisconsin for example. It's a well regarded pollster but even well regarded pollsters can put out badly wrong polls and I haven't seen any other polls this bad for Biden aside from the obviously partisan trash like Trafalgar or Rasmussen.

Fingers crossed it's an outlier or if not it's just confined to Iowa

Edit: although people are now bashing it for not weighting by education which was kind of a crucial part of why the polls missed last time - the college degree/non-college degree split amongst whites. And anyway if it was 47-47 last time and 48-41 this time, where did those other 5% go who apparently had made their minds up last month but now haven't? And so on... honestly polls are fun as long as you like numbers and understand why they may or may not be right or wrong!

That Iowa one has got to be an outlier. it just makes no sense
 
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