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US election 2020 thread

butchersapron said:
nonsensical, logic-proof theories of QAnon don’t demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents as much as the desperation people feel for communal belonging, to find a theory that makes sense of the desperation and misery of their lives, and to take actions into their own hands, acting in concert.
Click to expand...

It kinda does demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents because what they are being asked to believe is stupidly far out BUT the rest of that sentence is spot on. As is the rest of that paragraph.
 
Struwwelpeter said:
3. Ultimately, the Americans' love of "Freedom" is so broadly accepted in all its forms that it doesn't give enough room for true fascism to truly take hold. The American right wing interpretation of freedom is about carrying your own military grade weapons, not being part of a larger corps acting under orders.
Click to expand...

For an inherently freedom loving nation, they don't half have a lot of heavily armed quasi-military police forces kicking around don't they?
 
butchersapron said:
Hard Crackers have just put out a decent piece, looking at what this might mean beyond Trump - worth a read along with some other decent pieces i suspect have been posted already (three way fight etc, but not been following thread):

The Big Takeover


...
More broadly, such conspiracy narratives are preferable to confronting the fact that an explicitly revolutionary rightist tendency is very likely enjoying an auspicious moment of recomposition, unafraid of meting out violence or meeting it, even to the point of death, and should therefore be respected as formidable foes, equally capable as leftists of opposing the US state, or worse yet, appearing as the only visible alternative to neoliberalism, as Trump did in the 2016 election. Now, with Donald Trump quickly fading to irrelevance, what we are seeing is almost certainly the birth of something new coming into existence that we’ll be contending with for years to come, defined by the experience of the Capitol siege, and the ideological and practical lines it will both expose and draw. Moreover, the conspiracy narrative allows people to sidestep facing the challenge that a comparatively small, focused, and courageous group of people can do a whole lot once it lets go of its fear and preoccupations with appeasing polite society or stepping on the toes of anyone who claims to represent large groups of people.

In a country where the majority of eligible citizens do not vote, rampant interpersonal violence, addiction, routines mass shootings, and suicide epidemics testify to a profound hopelessness that anything can be done to improve daily life. The nonsensical, logic-proof theories of QAnon don’t demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents as much as the desperation people feel for communal belonging, to find a theory that makes sense of the desperation and misery of their lives, and to take actions into their own hands, acting in concert. Collective actions like the siege of the Capitol, no matter how ephemeral, register in the minds of millions of people the idea that drastic measures can be taken by ordinary people. Forget how risible or horrific it may seem to professional pundits or social media celebrities who shed tears for the sanctity of the “hallowed halls” where imperialist wars and austerity programs are hatched. The sight of gatecrashers angrily storming the Senate demanding Mike Pence reveal himself, a man in proletarian dress with his feet up on a desk in the office of the multi-millionaire powerbroker Nancy Pelosi, and the perverse fun most of them seemed to be having doing it, furnish powerful political images that speak to the widespread disgust with US life that’s just about the only thing everyone agrees on.

What is our alternative?
Click to expand...
Got to be careful about projecting onto those who stormed the capitol ideas about them that don't really fit. From the profiles that are emerging, they're not really living with 'desperation and misery' . They're not poor and downtrodden. These are fuckers who cause desperation and misery in those around them, those worse off than them whom they hate, black people , for instance.
 
The piece characterises those millions now trapped trapped by the Q nonsense as/by "the desperation people feel for communal belonging, to find a theory that makes sense of the desperation and misery of their lives, and to take actions into their own hands, acting in concert." not those who took part in this rubbish the other day. What it says about the latter is that it demonstrates in the purest way - to both those Q types and those opposed that radical action can be taken, maybe even in a way that might start to address the former. It doesn't say these people at the capitol are poor downtrodden types.
 
Biden should definitely go all guns against trump and his cronies. The argument that it will further enrage his base and furthrt entrench thier brliefs is groundless, they are already about as angry and entrenched as they could be, they belive the world is run by baby stealing satanists ffs.
Stick the boot into the whole sorry shower of grifting gangsters and fascists.
 
8ball said:
I think that's one of nicest things I've heard said about him.

In the interests of balance, I tried looking up good things he has done as President a little while back.
While this is clearly coloured by my political outlook, they were thin on the ground to say the least (it made Dubya's record comparatively glowing).
Click to expand...
One of the things I truly hate about the worthless orange shitstain is that I find myself looking at the complete fuckwit we have for a PM and thinking that Trump makes him seem quite decent.
 
And it's obvious that the state will go heavily against anyone, Trump included, who was involved on Wednesday. I don't get people on here going on about getting upset with the liberal hand-wringing over an attack on the Capitol building. Of course the 'democratic' world was going to line up to attack what happened. It's the symbol of the essence of democracy. Their system. I've been outside the HoP more than once on demos having the conversation "How far do you think we'd get?". And lots of years in prison used to make our minds up for us.

It's not Biden coming down heavily. It's the state apparatus. It's how it works. They have a lot to defend.
 
planetgeli said:
It kinda does demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents because what they are being asked to believe is stupidly far out BUT the rest of that sentence is spot on. As is the rest of that paragraph.
Click to expand...
Would you say that all religious people are thick?
 
Apparently MAGA fans are now telling themselves that Trumps statement in his 'Tell everyone you're sorry or else no Happy Meal' speech that they were handing over to a 'new administration' really means a second Trump administration.

Not that he's such a bad loser he can't actually bring himself to say Joe Biden's name in association with being POTUS.
 
Cloo said:
Apparently MAGA fans are now telling themselves that Trumps statement in his 'Tell everyone you're sorry or else no Happy Meal' speech that they were handing over to a 'new administration' really means a second Trump administration.
Click to expand...

Wut?
Where?

I must see this.
 
butchersapron said:
Hard Crackers have just put out a decent piece, looking at what this might mean beyond Trump - worth a read along with some other decent pieces i suspect have been posted already (three way fight etc, but not been following thread):

The Big Takeover


...
More broadly, such conspiracy narratives are preferable to confronting the fact that an explicitly revolutionary rightist tendency is very likely enjoying an auspicious moment of recomposition, unafraid of meting out violence or meeting it, even to the point of death, and should therefore be respected as formidable foes, equally capable as leftists of opposing the US state, or worse yet, appearing as the only visible alternative to neoliberalism, as Trump did in the 2016 election. Now, with Donald Trump quickly fading to irrelevance, what we are seeing is almost certainly the birth of something new coming into existence that we’ll be contending with for years to come, defined by the experience of the Capitol siege, and the ideological and practical lines it will both expose and draw. Moreover, the conspiracy narrative allows people to sidestep facing the challenge that a comparatively small, focused, and courageous group of people can do a whole lot once it lets go of its fear and preoccupations with appeasing polite society or stepping on the toes of anyone who claims to represent large groups of people.

In a country where the majority of eligible citizens do not vote, rampant interpersonal violence, addiction, routines mass shootings, and suicide epidemics testify to a profound hopelessness that anything can be done to improve daily life. The nonsensical, logic-proof theories of QAnon don’t demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents as much as the desperation people feel for communal belonging, to find a theory that makes sense of the desperation and misery of their lives, and to take actions into their own hands, acting in concert. Collective actions like the siege of the Capitol, no matter how ephemeral, register in the minds of millions of people the idea that drastic measures can be taken by ordinary people. Forget how risible or horrific it may seem to professional pundits or social media celebrities who shed tears for the sanctity of the “hallowed halls” where imperialist wars and austerity programs are hatched. The sight of gatecrashers angrily storming the Senate demanding Mike Pence reveal himself, a man in proletarian dress with his feet up on a desk in the office of the multi-millionaire powerbroker Nancy Pelosi, and the perverse fun most of them seemed to be having doing it, furnish powerful political images that speak to the widespread disgust with US life that’s just about the only thing everyone agrees on.

What is our alternative?
Click to expand...
this is really good ta. everyone read the whole thing.
 
Cloo said:
Apparently MAGA fans are now telling themselves that Trumps statement in his 'Tell everyone you're sorry or else no Happy Meal' speech that they were handing over to a 'new administration' really means a second Trump administration.

Not that he's such a bad loser he can't actually bring himself to say Joe Biden's name in association with being POTUS.
Click to expand...

This is just group hallucination now. Blimey.
 
butchersapron said:
Hard Crackers have just put out a decent piece, looking at what this might mean beyond Trump - worth a read along with some other decent pieces i suspect have been posted already (three way fight etc, but not been following thread):

The Big Takeover


...
More broadly, such conspiracy narratives are preferable to confronting the fact that an explicitly revolutionary rightist tendency is very likely enjoying an auspicious moment of recomposition, unafraid of meting out violence or meeting it, even to the point of death, and should therefore be respected as formidable foes, equally capable as leftists of opposing the US state, or worse yet, appearing as the only visible alternative to neoliberalism, as Trump did in the 2016 election. Now, with Donald Trump quickly fading to irrelevance, what we are seeing is almost certainly the birth of something new coming into existence that we’ll be contending with for years to come, defined by the experience of the Capitol siege, and the ideological and practical lines it will both expose and draw. Moreover, the conspiracy narrative allows people to sidestep facing the challenge that a comparatively small, focused, and courageous group of people can do a whole lot once it lets go of its fear and preoccupations with appeasing polite society or stepping on the toes of anyone who claims to represent large groups of people.

In a country where the majority of eligible citizens do not vote, rampant interpersonal violence, addiction, routines mass shootings, and suicide epidemics testify to a profound hopelessness that anything can be done to improve daily life. The nonsensical, logic-proof theories of QAnon don’t demonstrate the stupidity of their adherents as much as the desperation people feel for communal belonging, to find a theory that makes sense of the desperation and misery of their lives, and to take actions into their own hands, acting in concert. Collective actions like the siege of the Capitol, no matter how ephemeral, register in the minds of millions of people the idea that drastic measures can be taken by ordinary people. Forget how risible or horrific it may seem to professional pundits or social media celebrities who shed tears for the sanctity of the “hallowed halls” where imperialist wars and austerity programs are hatched. The sight of gatecrashers angrily storming the Senate demanding Mike Pence reveal himself, a man in proletarian dress with his feet up on a desk in the office of the multi-millionaire powerbroker Nancy Pelosi, and the perverse fun most of them seemed to be having doing it, furnish powerful political images that speak to the widespread disgust with US life that’s just about the only thing everyone agrees on.

What is our alternative?
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for this.
 
planetgeli said:
What? I was referencing things like "Trump is saving is from paedophilia".

Can you explain your question please?
Click to expand...
Basically, Qanon is very much like a religious movement (sense of community, good versus evil etc) than it is a bunch of theories / wacky ideas that people take on board for no reason. So I think it is silly to say they’re all stupid, unless you would happily also say the same of all religious people who engage in shared irrational beliefs for reasons that aren’t incomprehensible, they get something from their belonging to the community which believes these things.
 
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