US election 2020 thread

[Treacle Toes]

and then there's this...

Probably an idea to watch other parts of this address too for context.

 

[hitmouse]

Oh yeah, that's fair enough. I can see why it serves a practical purpose for Republicans wanting to rebrand as Sensible Centrists Who Definitely Didn't Have Anything To Do With The Last Four years, and I suppose for Democrats there's at least a symbolic sense of Something Being Done?

 

[petee]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1346928968365064194

Pro-Trump crowds march on statehouses across the country

 

[Ax^]

America still trying to explain white privilege to the world

 

[Cloo]

I'm just wondering what is the best thing the Biden administration can do counter the threat of MAGA extremism/terrorism in the longer run.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1346928968365064194

Pro-Trump crowds march on statehouses across the country

Not exactly inspiring, though, is it? A hundred here, fifty there. Most of them obvious fascist thugs. This is peak protest time, surely, the day after the event. If so, all I can say is 'Is that all you've got?'

 

[existentialist]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump dead by 2024.

Is this a professional opinion?

 

[hitmouse]

Expanded analysis from Crimethinc here: January 6: A Mass Base for Fascism?

We are already seeing our former allies withdrawal from the streets in the events of January 6. Liberals urged people not to go to DC, counting on the authorities to deal with Trump supporters. This was a miscalculation. Security forces are not particularly inclined to stand up to the part of the population they sympathize with most—and even when they choose to do so, their hands are effectively tied by the deeply engrained institutional habits of treating conservative white people much more respectfully than they treat people of color, poor people, and anti-capitalists.

In short, no one is coming to save us. We have to prepare for the possibility that an emboldened fascist movement will continue to carry out attacks around the United States while a new centrist consensus in government enacts measures that target us as well as them. If our movements are to survive, this will necessitate community organizing and solidarity on a scale we have not seen yet...

Trump himself threatened anti-fascists ahead of January 6, urging them to stay out of Washington, DC lest they interfere with the show he was preparing to stage-manage. The far right has made opposing “antifa” into almost the entirety of their platform—not just because negative points of unity are most expedient in a time of political polarization, but also because anti-fascists have won so many victories up until this point, slowing their growth. On January 5, a White House memo copied straight out of the fascist playbook announced that they were trying to back the Anarchist Exclusion Act of 1903/1918, seeking to exclude people from the US for opposing fascism. Such policies, begun under Trump, could continue under Biden—for example, if his former Republican supporters join the political center on the condition that it adopts planks from their preexisting agenda...

Anarchists face a double bind in responding to the events of January 6. It doesn’t make sense to risk our lives to defend the institutions that preside over state oppression, nor to provide fascists with easy opportunities to kill or harm us. At the same time, if we cede the entire terrain of conflict to an insurgent far right and a repressive police state, however much harm they do each other, the political horizon will shrink to be small indeed. As a minimum program, we should stake out an anti-authoritarian alternative to both of these forces, establishing new models for action and finding points of intervention that minimize vulnerability.

It will probably not be possible for Trump’s supporters to do the same thing twice. On January 20, when Joe Biden is inaugurated president, we anticipate that there will be a tremendous police and military presence in Washington, DC. On the other other hand, Trump supporters may attempt to duplicate what they did in DC at state capital buildings around the country. Those who oppose both fascism and state repression may have to go back to the drawing board to identify the most strategic goals in this new scenario.

One mistake we must not make is to assume that all the pieces are already on the playing board. This is not true—there are still massive sectors of society that have not yet cast their lot with one side or the order. The rush to escalate towards civil war increases the likelihood that we arrive at that point before we are ready. Civil war may be inevitable, but if it is, that is all the more reason to focus on building networks and appealing to those who have not yet taken a side while there is still time.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm just wondering what is the best thing the Biden administration can do counter the threat of MAGA extremism/terrorism in the longer run.

They could try improving society somewhat. But they won't.

 

[Cid]

Yeah but impeaching or 25th ing wouldn’t change that. I did just mean what’s the point of these efforts to remove him from office with 13 days to go.

Aside from the basic point of principle, I believe it would stop any further presidential pardons.

 

[tendril]

Yeah but impeaching or 25th ing wouldn’t change that. I did just mean what’s the point of these efforts to remove him from office with 13 days to go.

Well if he is removed it will be all the more embarrassing for him as a one term president that didn't even finish his term.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They could try improving society somewhat. But they won't.

Thing is, sheilanagig's stepbro illustrates one of the problems. Many of the things that we would consider to be improving society are things they consider to be communism. They fear the things that Biden won't do.

 

[Raheem]

Yeah but impeaching or 25th ing wouldn’t change that. I did just mean what’s the point of these efforts to remove him from office with 13 days to go.

25th is being used as a threat to keep him in line, I suspect. He gives a concession (which he sort of almost did yesterday) then shuts the fuck up until the inauguration, or the rabbit gets it. Whether they would follow through or not is another matter, but the threat has to be credible to have a purpose.

On top of that, cabinet secretaries will be thinking about what they will say about things to a senate enquiry in six months' time, and what becomes of the republican party if there is another impeachment or if Trump pulls another stunt.

I don't know enough about the individual members of the cabinet to know how those considerations will weigh on them, but potentially these are surely reasons why they might want to press the red button.

 

[platinumsage]

Free money if anyone can tell the police who this man is:

Police Need Help Identifying Famous QAnon Guy Named Jake Angeli From Arizona

D.C. police will give you $1,000 for information about this very famous person who has been identified dozens of times.

www.vice.com

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Thing is, sheilanagig's stepbro illustrates one of the problems. Many of the things that we would consider to be improving society are things they consider to be communism. They fear the things that Biden won't do.

Actually improving material conditions has far more effect than entrenched propaganda, even if the latter makes the former difficult. The barrier isn't the entrenched propaganda, it's simply that they won't do it because they don't want to because everything is set up so if you did want to, you wouldn't get into power.

 

[teqniq]

Wonder if the FBI will be interested in this one?

West Virginia state GOP lawmaker participated in insurrection at US Capitol

A West Virginia state lawmaker was among pro-Donald Trump rioters who stormed the US Capitol in Wednesday's deadly insurrection.

edition.cnn.com

 

[two sheds]

The FBI asks for help identifying Trump’s terrorists. Internet (and local news) doesn't disappoint

Yesterday’s insurrection at the nation’s capitol was pure chaos. It reportedly left four people dead; one woman was shot and killed by Capitol police when she attempted to breach a barricaded doorway during the tragic madness of it all....

www.dailykos.com

This is precious - they're being identified and may face unlawful entry charges (perhaps more ) a couple have been sacked for wearing their employers' logos. Several have identified themselves too

duh

 

[petee]

Not exactly inspiring, though, is it? A hundred here, fifty there. Most of them obvious fascist thugs. This is peak protest time, surely, the day after the event. If so, all I can say is 'Is that all you've got?'

50 muscled-up, armed, reckless guys here, a hundred there, all over the country, against unarmed types trying to show off being law-abiding = thuggery and killing and the sense of entitlement to keep it up.

"we'll be back and violent next time", which they will.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The FBI asks for help identifying Trump’s terrorists. Internet (and local news) doesn't disappoint

Yesterday’s insurrection at the nation’s capitol was pure chaos. It reportedly left four people dead; one woman was shot and killed by Capitol police when she attempted to breach a barricaded doorway during the tragic madness of it all....

www.dailykos.com

This is precious - they're being identified and may face unlawful entry charges (perhaps more ) a couple have been sacked for wearing their employers' logos. Several have identified themselves too

duh

Just seen a pic of one chap wearing his work ID/company lanyard

...as an aside, it's clear that many of these people are new to protesting ....just a shame they've chosen this hill to die on....and by that I mean let others die on.

 

[splonkydoo]

This is a very good analysis from Mike Davis. Not long-winded either

Mike Davis, Riot on the Hill — Sidecar (newleftreview.org)

Yesterday’s ‘sacrileges’ in our temple of democracy – oh, poor defiled city on the hill, etc. – constituted an ‘insurrection’ only in the sense of dark comedy. What was essentially a big biker gang dressed as circus performers and war-surplus barbarians – including the guy with a painted face posing as horned bison in a fur coat – stormed the ultimate country club, squatted on Pence’s throne, chased Senators into the sewers, casually picked their noses and rifled files and, above all, shot endless selfies to send to the dudes back home. Otherwise they didn’t have a clue. (The aesthetic was pure Buñuel and Dali: ‘Our only rule was very simple: no idea or image that might lend itself to a rational explanation of any kind would be accepted.’)

But something unexpectedly profound happened: a deus ex machina that lifted the curse of Trump from the careers of conservative war hawks and right-wing young lions, whose ambitions until yesterday had been fettered by the presidential cult. Today was the signal for a long-awaited prison break. The word ‘surreal’ has been thrown around a lot, but it accurately characterizes last night’s bipartisan orgy, with half of the Senate election-denialists channeling Biden’s call for a ‘return to decency’ and vomiting up vast amounts of noxious piety.

 

[Cloo]

This is a very good analysis from Mike Davis. Not long-winded either

Mike Davis, Riot on the Hill — Sidecar (newleftreview.org)

Thanks, an interesting piece - as he says, it's provided a convenient 'final straw' for certain Republicans to distance themselves from Trump (see also allies resigning with 13 days to go, when maybe 13 months ago or more would have said rather more).

My mum reckons Trump will start his own party - at first I thought that would be good news for Dems in terms of splitting votes, but maybe not given how American politics 'works' and that article suggests it's not as easy as that...

 

[SpookyFrank]

Do these people usually know what he's going to do next?

 

[Flavour]

I'll be very very very surprised if pence invokes 25

Surely he'll just tell trump in private to shut the fuck up and lay low until the 20th

 

[1927]

I'll be very very very surprised if pence invokes 25

Surely he'll just tell trump in private to shut the fuck up and lay low until the 20th

Problem is he doesn't like being told what to do and he could do a lot of damage in 13 days.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Edit, too late with the animaniacs

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah but impeaching or 25th ing wouldn’t change that. I did just mean what’s the point of these efforts to remove him from office with 13 days to go.

Oh, apparently a successful impeachment would also include "disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States". So if they do manage to impeach him then that definitely 100% rules out any lawful route to any further political office in future. I don't think 25ing has any similar rule though.

 

[Wilf]

I'll be very very very surprised if pence invokes 25

Surely he'll just tell trump in private to shut the fuck up and lay low until the 20th

Yep. I doubt the cabinet would vote for it, there would just be too much risk to them from trump's loons. I'd have thought impeachment was a non-starter also, surely there isn't enough time to do the hearings? I suspect the Senate might vote for it, if it gets that far. I assume it's now 50-50 if the Georgia Dems have arrived and Romney would vote for it, so Pence's casting vote would be irrelevant. Just isn't going to happen in the 12 days.

Edit: fwiw, I doubt Biden wants it either.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Actually improving material conditions has far more effect than entrenched propaganda, even if the latter makes the former difficult. The barrier isn't the entrenched propaganda, it's simply that they won't do it because they don't want to because everything is set up so if you did want to, you wouldn't get into power.

Yes and no. In the short term, doing things such as raising taxes on the rich to provide universal health care or affordable tuition fees might conceivably increase the risks of domestic terrorism, especially if it's seen to benefit particular sections of society. You do it because it's the right thing to do, not to appease those who oppose you, and you do it even if it increases the risk of a violent response in the short term.

 

[killer b]

Yep. I doubt the cabinet would vote for it, there would just be too much risk to them from trump's loons. I'd have thought impeachment was a non-starter also, surely there isn't enough time to do the hearings? I suspect the Senate might vote for it, if it gets that far. I assume it's now 50-50 if the Georgia Dems have arrived and Romney would vote for it, so Pence's casting vote would be irrelevant. Just isn't going to happen in the 12 days.

Edit: fwiw, I doubt Biden wants it either.

they'd need a two-thirds majority in the senate to convict anyway - fairly sure they'd struggle to get over that.

 

[moochedit]

Yep. I doubt the cabinet would vote for it, there would just be too much risk to them from trump's loons. I'd have thought impeachment was a non-starter also, surely there isn't enough time to do the hearings? I suspect the Senate might vote for it, if it gets that far. I assume it's now 50-50 if the Georgia Dems have arrived and Romney would vote for it, so Pence's casting vote would be irrelevant. Just isn't going to happen in the 12 days.

Edit: fwiw, I doubt Biden wants it either.

Iirc impeachment needs a two thirds vote of the senate so would require some republicans.