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US election 2020 thread

I am listening...

On the 'speak openly' front...

They've won 24 out of 42 presidential elections since 1856 ( according to a wiki)

8 since 1964, out of 15.

I think we have to also consider local elections of particular states here just like we would boroughs in London/regions in the UK... For example what is the local landscape for your family where they live? How have the Republicans faired? What 'culture' exists? What are the trends etc.

You are of course right that these views are far from new.


Yes of course. But I’m talking about porch conversations, the day to day chatter rather than political discussions.

I have noticed how people became far less circumspect in the way the talked as soon as Trump appeared.

Another story I've told on here before, but perhaps it bears repeating:
I was in the South during the first Trumo election. The night of the first debate, my stepmother suggested that I go watch the debates at J’s place because she didn’t think it a good idea for us to watch it together, our politics are so different (all done with many smiles and compliments, and an offer to drive me over there and bring food and drinks along too : charm and hospitality while telling me to get out of her/ my father’s house because she dislikes my politics). So I watched the debate with my Democrat family. The following day I went to visit other family and we spent a lovely afternoon visiting on the porch, many differnt aunts, uncles, cousins and their kids coming by to say Hey and sit a while. By the end of that afternoon I was absolutely certain that Trump would win. We talked about the election, we talked about Trump and his policies. Whenever I said “But he’s....” one or another would say “Me too, us too. Yes, I agree.” My first instinct was shock because it was so brazen; a moment later I realised they were telling me what I’d always known about them. I challenged an aunt, I said “But that’s racism” and she said “Well. I don’t like to say it but I’ll admit it, I’ll admit it, I guess I am a racist”, at which point others jumped in with qualifiers and caveats. A cousin said to me “Well I don’t want multiculturalism, I don’t want to come out of my house and see all these people from all over the place, do you?” to which of course I said “Yes! I love it. That’s why I love living in Brixton”. He sat back in his chair and went “Huh!” And oh how we laughed at our differences. He teased me abiut being his L’il English Cuz’n, and then an uncle reminded everyone about how my mother is an Arab and how strange she looked when she’s visited, but he was hushed up by his wife, who reassured me with a pat on my hand and the words “Well, that don’t matter, you’re kin”. This had never been said aloud to me before. And I knew for certain sure that Trump would win.



So it’s somehow not about politics, or not quite, or not exactly. It’s more about Trump giving them licence to speak freely.
 
it was not just the Folk in the US who had that conversation about the perils of multiculturalism

is it any wonder you had Farage sucking Trump balls for the last 4 years trying to stay relevant
 
Yes of course. But I’m talking about porch conversations, the day to day chatter rather than political discussions.

I have noticed how people became far less circumspect in the way the talked as soon as Trump appeared.

Another story I've told on here before, but perhaps it bears repeating:
I was in the South during the first Trumo election. The night of the first debate, my stepmother suggested that I go watch the debates at J’s place because she didn’t think it a good idea for us to watch it together, our politics are so different (all done with many smiles and compliments, and an offer to drive me over there and bring food and drinks along too : charm and hospitality while telling me to get out of her/ my father’s house because she dislikes my politics). So I watched the debate with my Democrat family. The following day I went to visit other family and we spent a lovely afternoon visiting on the porch, many differnt aunts, uncles, cousins and their kids coming by to say Hey and sit a while. By the end of that afternoon I was absolutely certain that Trump would win. We talked about the election, we talked about Trump and his policies. Whenever I said “But he’s....” one or another would say “Me too, us too. Yes, I agree.” My first instinct was shock because it was so brazen; a moment later I realised they were telling me what I’d always known about them. I challenged an aunt, I said “But that’s racism” and she said “Well. I don’t like to say it but I’ll admit it, I’ll admit it, I guess I am a racist”, at which point others jumped in with qualifiers and caveats. A cousin said to me “Well I don’t want multiculturalism, I don’t want to come out of my house and see all these people from all over the place, do you?” to which of course I said “Yes! I love it. That’s why I love living in Brixton”. He sat back in his chair and went “Huh!” And oh how we laughed at our differences. He teased me abiut being his L’il English Cuz’n, and then an uncle reminded everyone about how my mother is an Arab and how strange she looked when she’s visited, but he was hushed up by his wife, who reassured me with a pat on my hand and the words “Well, that don’t matter, you’re kin”. This had never been said aloud to me before. And I knew for certain sure that Trump would win.



So it’s somehow not about politics, or not quite, or not exactly. It’s more about Trump giving them licence to speak freely.

Sheila, porch conversations are political too. Family dynamics are political.

Thanks for sharing that personal story...I have many similar ones that date back to me being a small child...sat in the front room with my favourite uncle and close family, hearing him refer to someone as a 'wog', glaring at him, seeing him flush red with anger but coax me over to his lap, rub my back and tell me 'I wasn't talking about you babe, you're family, different'...having my aunt squirm and change the subject...seeing others get busy...all of them praying no doubt I didn't tell my mum.

I've heard it all since...every fucking single excuse or offer of compromise because we're 'kin'...some relatives openly declaring 'no political talk tonight' over the years when we met for whatever the occasion, being told despite the fact some know their racism has marred my life, they still love me.. As I got older they learnt to hold they fucking tongues and I stopped visting for obvious reasons.

I know what you are feeling, many of us have been dealing with it for a long time too. None of it is new or special. It's day to day, mundane, culturally and politically who they are, who we are.
 
Rutita1

Yes yes, it is political, all of it.

Sorry. I’m so tired now.

I was trying, badly, to respond to your previous post, which I (maybe mis)understood to be saying that they’re not silenced politically, because of the election results you provided.

My reply was an attempt to say that it’s not about voting and elections and representatives, it’s about the day to day mundane stuff. Which is of course political. I ought to have said that too. But the people on the porch don’t feel like they’re being political.

And I’m sorry if the porch story sounded like some kind of attempt to prove my credentials or play top trumps. That’s not what I intended. I rarely ever mention my heritage because I was raised and normalised as white, with all the attendant privilege that comes with that. I offered it in an attempt to illustrate the change in the attitude and speech, as I witnessed and experienced it, once Trump was in the picture.

I seem to be muddling myself into a cul de sac of some kind here.

I’m so sad and so horrified by what’s happened, what’s been happening.
 
Sheila, porch conversations are political too. Family dynamics are political.

Thanks for sharing that personal story...I have many similar ones that date back to me being a small child...sat in the front room with my favourite uncle and close family, hearing him refer to someone as a 'wog', glaring at him, seeing him flush red with anger but coax me over to his lap, rub my back and tell me 'I wasn't talking about you babe, you're family, different'...having my aunt squirm and change the subject...seeing others get busy...all of them praying no doubt I didn't tell my mum.

I've heard it all since...every fucking single excuse or offer of compromise because we're 'kin'...some relatives openly declaring 'no political talk tonight' over the years when we met for whatever the occasion, being told despite the fact some know their racism has marred my life, they still love me.. As I got older they learnt to hold they fucking tongues and I stopped visting for obvious reasons.

I know what you are feeling, many of us have been dealing with it for a long time too. None of it is new or special. It's day to day, mundane, culturally and politically who they are, who we are.


Also, I’m so sad and sorry that you've had to endure this shit.
 
I was just looking at a series of synchronised videos of when Ashli Babbit was shot. (I won't embed them given how they do actually show someone getting shot, even if it's not graphic, but they're on Bellingcat who have been compiling media generally on the capitol invasion - this is the specific video I mean.)

What gets me is the heavily armed cops just milling about on the MAGA side as they wander around and Babbit tries to climb through a broken window in a partition, and gets shot by whoever is on the other side. I actually wasn't sure whether they were real cops or just some MAGA types dressed up, given how they are doing nothing, but no, they are real cops.
 
Realistically, even if donald has gone totally out of his mind, what is it they’re all worried he could do next? If he ordered something really mad i think at this point he’d just not be obeyed by the people who would have to carry out his wishes.
 
Sheila, porch conversations are political too. Family dynamics are political.

Thanks for sharing that personal story...I have many similar ones that date back to me being a small child...sat in the front room with my favourite uncle and close family, hearing him refer to someone as a 'wog', glaring at him, seeing him flush red with anger but coax me over to his lap, rub my back and tell me 'I wasn't talking about you babe, you're family, different'...having my aunt squirm and change the subject...seeing others get busy...all of them praying no doubt I didn't tell my mum.

I've heard it all since...every fucking single excuse or offer of compromise because we're 'kin'...some relatives openly declaring 'no political talk tonight' over the years when we met for whatever the occasion, being told despite the fact some know their racism has marred my life, they still love me.. As I got older they learnt to hold they fucking tongues and I stopped visting for obvious reasons.

I know what you are feeling, many of us have been dealing with it for a long time too. None of it is new or special. It's day to day, mundane, culturally and politically who they are, who we are.

I had this to a somewhat lesser extent when a friend from way back got in touch after a long time laid out his Brexit credentials and dislike of “dilution of our culture” yet was at pains to exclude my German mother (who he’s known since we were in short trousers) from that as she’d been so kind to him through the years. He can fuck off - but it’s still very disappointing 😕
 
I was thinking more of Pisacane 'propaganda of the deed'.
Oh yeah, I more or less guessed that (although I hadn't encountered the name Pisacane before and had to look that bit up). I was just gently wanting to push back on that given that actual anarchists are among the people who've risked most to fight these divs over the last few years, and also right-wing conspiracy mongers are hard at work trying to prove that antifa were behind it all anyway, and also muddlehead liberals seem to think that "anarchist" and "anyone who smashes something or is otherwise a bit rowdy" are interchangeable terms, I think it's probably better not to muddy those waters any further than they've already been.
Or to put it another way:

Realistically, even if donald has gone totally out of his mind, what is it they’re all worried he could do next? If he ordered something really mad i think at this point he’d just not be obeyed by the people who would have to carry out his wishes.
I mean, if you mean "the people who would have to carry out his wishes" because they're below him in the state hierarchy that's probably true, but the danger is that he'd still be obeyed by his followers on ParlerGab or whatever he's got left.
 
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