US election 2020 thread

[killer b]

Oops. Yes.

A stupid mistake.

Sorry Urban.

So I guess all my opinions will now be tossed overboard.


It’s been a long night and day, I’m wrung out and overloaded with pictures and stories and conversations with American family who are heartbroken.



I’ll fuck off and take my opinions with me.

I appreciate stuff sometimes gets a bit rough in here, but being asked to clarify who you mean doesn't really warrant this response. Chill out.

 

[belboid]

Oops. Yes.

A stupid mistake.

Sorry Urban.

So I guess all my opinions will now be tossed overboard.


It’s been a long night and day, I’m wrung out and overloaded with pictures and stories and conversations with American family who are heartbroken.



I’ll fuck off and take my opinions with me.

Naah, other than the name you’re dead right. I was watching him last night thinking his accent didn’t used to be that broad. He’s definitely playing for that market.

 

[mhendo]

This is a natural and easy progression for them. This is quite the normal for them.

You say that he's not part of the "lunatic fringe."

I think that what we need to do here is dis-aggregate the term. Your stepbrother might not be fringe, but he's definitely lunatic. The problem with the Republican Party is that lunatic has moved from the fringe to the mainstream.

 

[Rimbaud]

Goodwin is floundering. His conceptualisation of populism is flawed (I’m just finishing his and Eatwell’s deeply unimpressive work. Not recommended reading). His abrupt declaration that Trump is in fact a fascist merely compounds precious errors and shows the folly of working backwards.

For Trump yesterday wasn’t an attempt to retain or seize power. It was primarily about the spectacle. It was also about Trump's priority which is to retain and reinforce political agency over the GOP going forward. A point helpfully confirmed by him and his son at the rally.

I'm not sure about that - I think it was intended to retain power but he didn't have the numbers or support in the end.

I think his vision was for a million people to storm the Capitol, and the spectacle and show of force would then pressure the Republican Party to back him and invalidate the election results, and/or trigger escalations and power seizures elsewhere across the country. Trump Jr's comments about the Republican Party being Trump's Party could also be seen in this light. However, in the end there were only a few thousand demonstrators so the spectacle did not have the desired effect.

 

[Dark Knight]

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh do fuck off.

 

[hitmouse]

It’s been a long night and day, I’m wrung out and overloaded with pictures and stories and conversations with American family who are heartbroken.



I’ll fuck off and take my opinions with me.

Please don't fuck off, I'm appreciating your contributions and appreciate it must be a very stressful time.

 

[bimble]

I'm not sure about that - I think it was intended to retain power but he didn't have the numbers or support in the end.

I think his vision was for a million people to storm the Capitol, and the spectacle and show of force would then pressure the Republican Party to back him and invalidate the election results, and/or trigger escalations and power seizures elsewhere across the country. Trump Jr's comments about the Republican Party being Trump's Party could also be seen in this light. However, in the end there were only a few thousand demonstrators so the spectacle did not have the desired effect.

I don't think so you know, I don't think he even thought strategically in that way at all. But if he did, he'd have figured out that the military (the real military not the cosplay one) were not going to play along, so he had no chance of an actually successful violent coup.

 

[hitmouse]

To post one irrelevant video and forget to add your own explanation of why you think people should look at it may be regarded as a misfortune, but to do two in a row looks like carelessness.

 

[hitmouse]

Don't think this has been posted yet, Mike Davis on yesterday's antics: Mike Davis, Riot on the Hill — Sidecar

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't think so you know, I don't think he even thought strategically in that way at all. But if he did, he'd have figured out that the military (the real military not the cosplay one) were not going to play along, so he had no chance of an actually successful violent coup.

I think it can be both. Psychology is normally bad politics, but in Trump's case, I think it's uanvoidable as it really is one person's ego driving all of this. To stop trying to change the result right up to inauguration day is to admit defeat. Carrying on like he's going to overturn the result allows his ego to prosper, so he does that for as long as he can, regardless of how hopeless the cause is. He's carried an amazing number of people along with him on his fantasy ride, after all, and I now strongly suspect that he's managed to convince himself of his bullshit over the last couple of months of obsessing over it.

 

[8ball]

Psychology is normally bad politics...

 

[platinumsage]

Yes, I go to it wrong.

I already said that

You win

The easiest way to remember Ted Cruz is the fact he is the Zodiac Killer.

 

[bimble]

I think it can be both. Psychology is normally bad politics, but in Trump's case, I think it's uanvoidable as it really is one person's ego driving all of this. To stop trying to change the result right up to inauguration day is to admit defeat. Carrying on like he's going to overturn the result allows his ego to prosper, so he does that for as long as he can, regardless of how hopeless the cause is. He's carried an amazing number of people along with him on his fantasy ride, after all, and I now strongly suspect that he's managed to convince himself of his bullshit over the last couple of months of obsessing over it.

Sure. But he didn’t really think that yesterday’s rally was going to be a successful putsch, somehow (underpants) giving him another 4 years.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I appreciate stuff sometimes gets a bit rough in here, but being asked to clarify who you mean doesn't really warrant this response. Chill out.

And I have done that.

I apologise for being over sensitive, and I may have been responding to the poster rather than the post with some of that.



I’m feeling pretty torn up about this.

It’s an interesting and enlivening political discussion on here.

I’ve got Democrat family and friends in the South who are genuinely considering their safety. Families are being torn apart by this shit.

Being told that people I know are lunatics is annoying. They are sane sound people who hold views that don’t make sense to some on here.

I’m saying that it’s foolish and dangerous to dismiss these views as lunatic. These are views that normal sane ordinary Republican voters are currently forming, holding, sharing, supporting.


Binary politics is binary shocker.

Lurch to the right leads to an increase in right wing politics shocker.


I haven’t read the stuff most others here have, and that’s a failing, I’ll admit. But I do have first hand experience over more than fifty years of listening to Republican voters who trust me and feel comfortable with me.


This is not far out stuff.

This is just the first chance they’ve had for a long long time to speak openly.

 

[Treacle Toes]

This is just the first chance they’ve had for a long long time to speak openly.

Seriously? Who has been silencing them?

 

[bimble]

SheilaNaGig I think you were exhausted at 6am. Understandably. There has been way too much news, and having family over there on both sides of this thing is a strain that i know well. Agree with you very much that 'they're all just loons' goes nowhere at all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sure. But he didn’t really think that yesterday’s rally was going to be a successful putsch, somehow (underpants) giving him another 4 years.

Among the thousand or so ironies in all this, he's now acting the anarchist role. Drop the bomb (or incite others to drop it) and see what happens in the fallout. It's all he has left. His estranged sister predicted all this back in October - that he would refuse to leave and bring the whole thing down with him if necessary in the attempt to cling to power. And so it is coming to pass. It is classic extreme narcissism/psycopathy and yes, it survives from moment to moment. That yesterday was a good day, with crowds and speeches and adoring fans, was an end in itself.

 

[killer b]

And I have done that.

I apologise for being over sensitive, and I may have been responding to the poster rather than the post with some of that.



I’m feeling pretty torn up about this.

It’s an interesting and enlivening political discussion on here.

I’ve got Democrat family and friends in the South who are genuinely considering their safety. Families are being torn apart by this shit.

Being told that people I know are lunatics is annoying. They are sane sound people who hold views that don’t make sense to some on here.

I’m saying that it’s foolish and dangerous to dismiss these views as lunatic. These are views that normal sane ordinary Republican voters are currently forming, holding, sharing, supporting.


Binary politics is binary shocker.

Lurch to the right leads to an increase in right wing politics shocker.


I haven’t read the stuff most others here have, and that’s a failing, I’ll admit. But I do have first hand experience over more than fifty years of listening to Republican voters who trust me and feel comfortable with me.


This is not far out stuff.

This is just the first chance they’ve had for a long long time to speak openly.

Most people who post here haven't read owt either tbf, it's mostly just reckons. and most of us reckon wrong half the time too.

That said I'm not sure many (any?) people are dismissing your relatives opinions as lunatic - more remarking on the mainstreaming of lunatic views.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Seriously? Who has been silencing them?

No one has silenced them.
Which is exaclty why I am very familiar with their views over many years.

I said “speak openly”.

Less euphamisticslly. Less guardedly. With less circumspection.

They know their racism etc is unacceptable outside their own circles and before trump they’d use all manner of veils and widely accepted tropes and other diguises.


I could give many many examples of times when that veil has slipped and they’ve exposed themselves vividly and sometimes shockingly. And plenty of examples of shit they don’t even realise is far right by my standards.

They’re far from silent, and have not been silenced.

I mean that they’ve been keeping their head down and seething about it.

Now they feel able to drop false modesty.

Since the first Trump election, they’ve been far far more openly vocal with their politics.

I’m not talking about the obvious outright villainous right wingers. I’m talking about the sane normal ordinary Republicans in the South

 

[Winot]

SheilaNaGig it’s fascinating hearing your family’s views relayed - please carry on.

He sounds extraordinarily angry and bitter - do you think this is rhetoric or is he really like that (or have I misjudged)?

 

[planetgeli]

Among the thousand or so ironies in all this, he's now acting the anarchist role.

I'm definitely having trouble remembering who the anarchists are. There appear to be millions of them, on both sides.

Good times.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Most people who post here haven't read owt either tbf, it's mostly just reckons. and most of us reckon wrong half the time too.

That said I'm not sure many (any?) people are dismissing your relatives opinions as lunatic - more remarking on the mainstreaming of lunatic views.

Thanks killer b


And yes, I get this point about lunatic fringe becoming mainstream.

I’m not being dumb about it.

I’m saying that while it looks and feels like far out - even lunatic - from the perspective of here, Europe, Manhattan, etc., it is not “far out” or “lunatic” in many parts of America*. It’s been normal there for ever. This is not new.

*I can only really speak about the South but I expect it is also true elsewhere.

 

[chilango]

Defending the Capitol? Not our battle.

I think there’s been a bit of ‘give them enough rope’ going on. This event has set back Trump and the far right more than counterprotests could. Nothing has been lost here.

Yeah.

I'm not talking about defending the Capitol.

But more that we're consigned/resigned to being spectators, powerless to intervene before or after.

 

[brogdale]

Mornington Crescent!

 

[a_chap]

It's good to see that Republican politicians now realise just how dangerous spreading lies and conspiracy nonsense is.

er...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No one has silenced them.
Which is exaclty why I am very familiar with their views over many years.

I said “speak openly”.

Less euphamisticslly. Less guardedly. With less circumspection.

They know their racism etc is unacceptable outside their own circles and before trump they’d use all manner of veils and widely accepted tropes and other diguises.


I could give many many examples of times when that veil has slipped and they’ve exposed themselves vividly and sometimes shockingly. And plenty of examples of shit they don’t even realise is far right by my standards.

They’re far from silent, and have not been silenced.

I mean that they’ve been keeping their head down and seething about it.

Now they feel able to drop false modesty.

Since the first Trump election, they’ve been far far more openly vocal with their politics.

I’m not talking about the obvious outright villainous right wingers. I’m talking about the sane normal ordinary Republicans in the South

This isn't about Trump, then, really? On the one hand, they're sane and normal, but on the other hand, they are racists with extreme views that they don't even realise are extreme because they're normalised by their surroundings. I lived in the South in the US a long time ago - nearly 30 years ago - and one of the first things that struck me (shocked me tbh) was how widespread and normalised racism was among white people there, among otherwise 'normal' people, and also how that racism was infused with levels of both fear and hatred. It sounds like perhaps things haven't changed too much.

 

[brogdale]

Evidence follows...

 

[bimble]

*I can only really speak about the South but I expect it is also true elsewhere.

My trump-appreciating relatives are in Connecticut & Florida. The one who doesn’t spend time on the internet is much less weird.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

SheilaNaGig it’s fascinating hearing your family’s views relayed - please carry on.

He sounds extraordinarily angry and bitter - do you think this is rhetoric or is he really like that (or have I misjudged)?

No, you’ve read him right.

He’s really like that. It’s not rhetoric.

And he’s full of righteous indignation. This too is standard for Southerners, although it’s well hidden.

He’s a cheerful chummy friendly smiling polite family man. He is successful and arrogant in his success. He loathes anyone who is not his equal while smiling and smiling. One of the reasons people like him enjoy and adore the South is exactly because they have a resident underclass to despise and blame.

The South is very weird. Hospitality and Southern Charm (look it up*) are articles of faith, as in religion. Never ever be openly rude or unpleasant. And seethe with vile resentment beneath the surface.



*
Except you can’t really because the only returns for that search are for a successful tv show.