US election 2020 thread

[Wilf]

Yeah I know. But it's the same here. Ten years of fucking tory cuts and they still keep getting back in.

... though I'd make the same point about what this says about Labour's ability to re-engage.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

From my stepbrother

 

[brogdale]

I remember a number of Urbz posting in the ‘Trump has covid’ threads at the time saying they hoped he’d survive to experience the anguish of losing.

Boy were they were right

 

[two sheds]

... though I'd make the same point about what this says about Labour's ability to re-engage.

and the media's ability to whitewash

 

[tim]

Everyone says this until it happens.

Physically the Palace of Westminster a much harder building to attack it's got fairly small defensible entrances, a glorified victorian ditch /moat on three sides and the Thames on the fourth. In addition there are the more recent anti-terrorist barriers round the outside. The US Capitol, in contrast, is surrounded by wide mob friendly flights of rather broad steps. On the positive side given the dilapidated state of the interior, all those small cramped spaces and the excessive use of wooden paneling it would be much easier to burn dow than the cavernous pile of sandstone, marble and cast-iron in Washington.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is one of the reasons people reckon it’s a swizz.

“This can’t happen, it’s so unusual, it must have been a coordinated hoax.”

"How could Biden beat me when he's clearly really shit?"

Coming from Trump first, and from many of his supporters now. But the thing they forget, or don't realise because they are surrounded by like-minded people, is how much the other half of the country hates Trump.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Yes, their anger has been misdirected by people who profit from maintaining the status quo. You have to remember that in some parts of the US, Fox News is the only news source.

Oof, I didn't know that!! Or do you mean the only one people will watch rather than the only one that's available?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

... though I'd make the same point about what this says about Labour's ability to re-engage.

Re-engage since when, though? Since Blair? He didn't re-engage with people struggling. He just took them for granted. Think you have to go back a long way to find a Labour govt that came to power on the back of properly engaging with their core and natural supporters. Wilson accepted a lot of Tory shit in the 60s. I reckon you've got to go back to 1945 tbh.

 

[moochedit]

However, I couldn't imagine this succeeding at the Houses of Parliament. I'm sure that those at the head of any group trying this would be shot.

Didn't some protestors break into parliament about 15 years ago? I think it was during the fox hunting bill or something like that.

Edit - yes..

BBC NEWS | Politics | Pro-hunt protesters storm Commons

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[tim]

An impeachment, if successful in the Senate, can be a bar from seeking office. Impeachment means you abused the power of your office and you don't get to be elected again, if that's what the Senate decides. As to whether other politicians should have the right to impose such a sanction, well that's up to the constitution. The US constitution gives them that power but sets a high bar at 2/3 majority.

Seems sensible enough to have mechanisms in place to remove a corrupt president in extremis. How would you do it?



Can an impeached president be re-elected?

I'd leave him to spend his last two weeks in office muttering impotently, and if there is evidence that could lead to conviction, give him a long, fair trial during which all thar evidence could be aired. As to preventing him being re-elected in 2024, that's best done by offering a credible alternative both to him and the neoliberal status quo.

 

[Supine]

Oh

 

[maomao]

From my stepbrother

View attachment 247673

Sheila. Your stebrother's name is still visible through the black effect you've used. It's a very common name so not that important but you obviously didn't intend to.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd leave him to spend his last two weeks in office muttering impotently, and if there is evidence that could lead to conviction, give him a long, fair trial during which all thar evidence could be aired. As to preventing him being re-elected in 2024, that's best done by offering a credible alternative both to him and the neoliberal status quo.

I don't disagree. From their pov, though, he pretty clearly incited insurrection yesterday. There are certainly grounds.

As to him standing again in 2024, bring it on. He won't win, either with a third party or for the Reps. A third party would guarantee a Democrat victory. Bear in mind that he only fluked a win against Hillary Clinton and was beaten by Joe Biden. He isn't a political genius.

 

[tim]

Didn't some protestors break into parliament about 15 years ago? I think it was during the fox hunting bill or something like that.

Edit - yes..

BBC NEWS | Politics | Pro-hunt protesters storm Commons

news.bbc.co.uk

Yes, five, not five hundred in the meantime the police were battering the shit out of the fox hunting masses outside

Fox hunting activists disrupt debate on ban

The best way to get in is either as the guest of an MP or peer or queue to sit in the public gallery, but both methods put limits on the number given access. They've also now put up glass barriers in the public gallery of both houses, so you can no longer bombard parliamentarians from on high with horse shit of pink talcum powder.

 

[tim]

The Dems have just taken control of all three bits of government - president, senate, house of reps - for the first time since 2009. And that with a system that is biased against them. They're not doing so badly.

Given that they were up against Trump had most of the media and a huge swathe of the Republican establishment including John Bolton and Bill Kristol supporting them, they didn't do that well.

 

[Dandred]

For anyone dealing with far right morons who are claiming these riots were the work of Antifa, these link will be helpful.

State Senate GOP Leader boosts Antifa conspiracy theory - Capitol Weekly

State Senate GOP Leader Shannon Grove had retweeted a comment from Lin Wood, a lawyer and supporter of President Trump, who defended the rioters.

capitolweekly.net

Fact Check: Tattooed Man Wearing Horns Storming The Capitol Is NOT Antifa/Pedophile -- He Is A QAnon/Trump Supporter | Lead Stories

Is this man photographed storming the U.S. Capitol in fur and horns an antifa activist working to make supporters of...

leadstories.com

There’s No Evidence Antifa Was Involved In The Attempted Coup At The Capitol

Right-wing figures have spread baseless claims that antifa was behind Wednesday’s violent insurrection at the Capitol.

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[Orang Utan]

Yes, their anger has been misdirected by people who profit from maintaining the status quo. You have to remember that in some parts of the US, Fox News is the only news source.

What about newspapers?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Sheila. Your stebrother's name is still visible through the black effect you've used. It's a very common name so not that important but you obviously didn't intend to.

Fixed, I think.

Thank you maomao

 

[tim]

What about newspapers?

Or pigeon post.

 

[Leighsw2]

Yes, five, not five hundred in the meantime the police were battering the shit out of the fox hunting masses outside

Fox hunting activists disrupt debate on ban

The best way to get in is either as the guest of an MP or peer or queue to sit in the public gallery, but both methods put limits on the number given access. They've also now put up glass barriers in the public gallery of both houses, so you can no longer bombard parliamentarians from on high with horse shit of pink talcum powder.

I well remember the debate in the House of Commons in 1994 on the Age of Consent (for gay men). MPs voted for 18 (down from 21), but narrowly rejected 16 (and equality). The massed ranks of gay rights activists/protesters in Parliament Square promptly stormed St Stephens entrance, which had to be barricaded and closed. Meanwhile I was locked inside with all the other activists and protesters. Fortunately, we knew some tame Labour MPs who took us off to one of the bars and we all got pissed. That's how they do things in Britain!

 

[tendril]

And true to form, some of them are turning out not to be the sharpest knives in the draw...

Man In Capitol Mob Fired After Wearing His Company ID Badge To Riot

The man was seen in multiple photos standing inside the U.S. Capitol building, donning a Trump flag and a visible ID from his place of work.

www.forbes.com

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Listen to these two Republican voters, interviewed on The World Tonight this evening.

Go to 25’15”

BBC Radio 4 - The World Tonight, Senior Democrats demanding President be removed from office

Increasing number of leading Republicans distancing themselves from Mr Trump

www.bbc.co.uk

The first is a farmer in Ohio saying he’s heartbroken by the way the Republican party has lied to him let him down.

The second is an electrical engineer from Alabama, saying Trump won the election and yesterday’s events were staged by the left and Trump has done nothing wrong.

Both have left the party during this administration.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

"How could Biden beat me when he's clearly really shit?"

Coming from Trump first, and from many of his supporters now. But the thing they forget, or don't realise because they are surrounded by like-minded people, is how much the other half of the country hates Trump.

And for them, those who hate Trump are the fools with dangerous fringe political views.

These are people who genuinely believe that universal health care is politically dangerous. They don’t stop stop to think it through though, they just go ahead and assume you’re a communist.

 

[Dogsauce]

More detail on the three other deaths during the protest.

One heart attack, one stroke and a 34-year old woman who was crushed when the building was stormed.

Three People, Including A Man Who Had A Heart Attack, Died Following Medical Emergencies At The Capitol

Kevin Greeson, a 55-year-old from Alabama who has advocated for violence online, had a history of high blood pressure and had a heart attack "in the midst of the excitement," his wife told BuzzFeed News.

www.buzzfeednews.com

I think someone posted here a rumour that someone died of a heart attack after a flash bomb went off next to them?

 

[Wilf]

A bit more on the 3 who died of medical emergencies (not much):
US Capitol pro-Trump mob: What we know about the 4 deaths (msn.com)
I imagine things got a bit hairy in there, but 3 people no more than middle aged dying of medical emergencies sounds a bit... unlikely. We'll hear at some point, but I'd have thought it was more likely to be 'medical emergencies plus/medical emergencies brought on by tear gas'. Certainly a good chance that all 4 would all be alive if trump hadn't sent them where he did.

Edit: oops, should read the post directly above before posting.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Oof, I didn't know that!! Or do you mean the only one people will watch rather than the only one that's available?

Only one available. Communications can be hard to come by in rural areas. You may not have access to internet service or you have really slow connections. Some parts of native reservations often don't have phone service, electrical access, or running water. Access to news is only part of the problem. I've sometimes referred to my hometown as "a sensory deprivation tank with cows."

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What about newspapers?

Can be a little tricky unless you're willing to spend some money. Getting a subscription to the New York times or Washington Post would cost you a small fortune. There are still a few small-town newspapers, but they tend to carry local news and gossip. Most just aren't going to bother.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

RIght. And this is infuriating and frustrating when trying to talk to them.

The infuriating thing is they insist that you don't understand the terms.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The best way to get in is either as the guest of an MP or peer or queue to sit in the public gallery, but both methods put limits on the number given access. They've also now put up glass barriers in the public gallery of both houses, so you can no longer bombard parliamentarians from on high with horse shit of pink talcum powder.

and less easy for abseiling lesbians

 

[Lord Camomile]