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US election 2020 thread

MrSki said:
Not a facist?
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crikey.
Screenshot 2021-01-07 at 11.18.30.png
 
It was really cringey yesterday on CNN when they were invoking George w Bush as the voice of reason and indeed of law. The one who was so fantastic on election night with the numbers, John King, said something like "say what you like about George W Bush, and he had his own problems, he had his problems in Iraq and a lot of people didn't always agree with him and the way he dealt with it, but he always had the utmost respect for the institutions of government, for the Constitution. "

And I thought - the problems he had in Iraq by invading unilaterally and against the will of that feeble but supposedly important international institution, the UN? Pathetic. Reminded who these cunts really are.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I think it's generally true, yes. If you want to change things meaningfully, you'll always be up against a chunk of the population that likes things as they are. Can you think of a place where this isn't true?
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OK wasn’t reading properly and missed the “most” in your sentence - my bad.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It's an alternative way of framing the question. To focus on the 70 million and ask how you win them over is a strange way of framing it to me. The answer to the question is that you can't win most of those 70 million over. The more important question for Democrats is how do you keep the 80 million you have.
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I've read this several times now and still dont understand this tbh. What does this mean in practice aside from writing off the swathes of w/class voters who voted Republican?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Seriously? That’s your strategy to peel 70 million people away?

I’ll just say this, in the absence of positive utopias people will continue to retreat into reactionary ones especially in a period where there are successive capitalist crises and elite liberals offer no alternative.

Most of those hand wringing now about "fascism" have spent the last decade undermining any moderately left-wing alternative and striving to restore the status quo - providing fertile ground for the Trump and others of a similar ilk.

Only a forceful, pro working class politics directly counter posed to Trumpism and Biden provide an alternative, without it yesterday may well be opening salvo of a very dark decade to come.

But you carry on...
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Tbh, I wouldn't call riots a "strategy" exactly, but I would have thought that the social forces that were expressed over the summer seem like the best available starting point for a forceful, pro working class politics directly counter posed to Trumpism and Biden. And certainly like the most obvious alternative pole of attraction, if not for Republican voters, then at least for very discontented people who might otherwise find themselves drawn to the Qanon crowd, or for whatever comes next after Qanonism.
 
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maomao said:
Should Antifa defend government buildings?
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Yes I really don't see how a load of counter protestors turning up last night would have helped anything. It would have muddied the reporting. This way there is no way it can be reported any other way apart from "trump protestors violently oppose democracy" (apart from by crazy people who were never going to report any other way apart from crazy)
 
Flavour said:
It was really cringey yesterday on CNN when they were invoking George w Bush as the voice of reason and indeed of law. The one who was so fantastic on election night with the numbers, John King, said something like "say what you like about George W Bush, and he had his own problems, he had his problems in Iraq and a lot of people didn't always agree with him and the way he dealt with it, but he always had the utmost respect for the institutions of government, for the Constitution. "

And I thought - the problems he had in Iraq by invading unilaterally and against the will of that feeble but supposedly important international institution, the UN? Pathetic. Reminded who these cunts really are.
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"Let's use some of those level-headed, respectful Bush policies and drop white phosphorus on the rioters. The survivors can be sent to Gitmo."
 
The39thStep said:
I've read this several times now and still dont understand this tbh. What does this mean in practice aside from writing off the swathes of w/class voters who voted Republican?
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It doesn't take into account the many and varied reasons that prompted 70 million to vote for Trump. Loads of votes would have come via protectionism and consequent revitalising of previously doomed (by globalisation) industries.
 
rutabowa said:
Well everyone who broke into the building were definitely loons. How many of them were there, I'm not sure? And the election has still got called for Biden as expected.
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Don’t think just calling them all loons makes much sense tbh. On what basis are you saying that?
They demonstrated if nothing else that conspiracy theories (eg the election was stolen) lead to actions, they don’t just stay online.
Reports of a van full of guns and molotov cocktails being found, it’s surprising in a way that they did such a shit job of it because i don’t think you can doubt their sincerity now.
 
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the 70 million people are not all for trump are they not voting for a set political party is massive in the states

you just would not vote for the other party regardless

not saying plenty of head bangers do not make up the 70 million voters
 
SheilaNaGig said:
but the McVeighs will be stirred up by this. They’ll see the chink in the armour around the machine and dig away at that, chip chip chip. They’re not even interested in overturning government, not really. They just want to stand in conflict and create their own little worlds.
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This is unfortunately the most troubling legacy of all this. I sadly couldn't agree more.
 
Flavour said:
It was really cringey yesterday on CNN when they were invoking George w Bush as the voice of reason and indeed of law. The one who was so fantastic on election night with the numbers, John King, said something like "say what you like about George W Bush, and he had his own problems, he had his problems in Iraq and a lot of people didn't always agree with him and the way he dealt with it, but he always had the utmost respect for the institutions of government, for the Constitution. "

And I thought - the problems he had in Iraq by invading unilaterally and against the will of that feeble but supposedly important international institution, the UN? Pathetic. Reminded who these cunts really are.
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What a terrible sight seeing a Republican trying to steal an election.... And now to the voice of reason, W Bush, the Republican who successfully stole an election
 
Hillary Clinton put the proportion of Trump voters that were redeemable at 50%, but her "basket of deplorables" remarks didn't go down all that well, IIRC.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and – as well as, you know, New York and California – but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but – he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
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F190B939-9C61-424D-AFB7-4005B087E80E.jpeg
I and others found this take on some in Western Democracies thinking they were better than others. However some people may find it distasteful as it features actors portraying people from Somalia. One poster on here who I respect told me that they felt it was racist, hence the Spolier. One other seems to think that any meme that has black people in it must be racist. I don’t agree with that, feeling it’s paternalistic in the worst degrees. I have left it up, albeit behind a spoiler, so you can make up your own minds. I might be wrong on this, I often am. .
 
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