US election 2020 thread

[redsquirrel]

It's an alternative way of framing the question. To focus on the 70 million and ask how you win them over is a strange way of framing it to me. The answer to the question is that you can't win most of those 70 million over. The more important question for Democrats is how do you keep the 80 million you have.

A position that neither I, nor Smokeandsteam, ever proposed.

Your "question" is an acceptance of the liberal anti-populist politics that are the other side of the coin of the populist radical right. I don't care (outside an academic interest) about the question for the Democratic Party, I'm interested in the working class.

 

[nogojones]

They're not talking 'unfitness' on the grounds of insanity are they? More on the grounds of being a total cunt, which isn't an excuse in a court of law AFAIK.

Couple of weeks for Pence to squeeze a pardon in though

 

[brogdale]

Amongst the torrent of images emerging, this has to be up there as quite extraordinary...

 

[Streathamite]

I must admit, I'm still staggered by the events of yesterday/very early today. I never thought I would see scenes like that in the Captiol. The US, and specifically the US right has gone full-on batshit mental.

 

[bimble]

I must admit, I'm still staggered by the events of yesterday/very early today. I never thought I would see scenes like that in the Captiol. The US, and specifically the US right has gone full-on batshit mental.

This is why i'm increasingly convinced its a good thing that this happened, the it could never happen here its all just a joke or a few loons on the internet in their underpants lot are quiet now.

 

[Streathamite]

Youtube comments sections too

"FAKE VIDEOS! ANTEEFA INFILTRATORS DID THIS! MY VIDEOS WERE THE BEST! SEEN BY MORE PEOPLE THAN ANYONE ELSE'S, EVER!!!! EVERYONE HAS SAID SO!!!" etc., etc., etc.

 

[killer b]

Couple of weeks for Pence to squeeze a pardon in though

I don't think this can happen now. I didn't think Trump would ever see any real consequences because of Realpolitik - without even needing to be pardoned - but now I think he has to see some consequences, because without them the edifice crumbles. I'm not totally sure what the consequences might be though.

 

[bimble]

The complicity of the police will have to get talked about now too surely? There can’t be anyone who buys the ‘we just had no incling this might happen’ thing.

 

[Ted Striker]

 

[Pickman's model]

A position that neither I, nor Smokeandsteam, ever proposed.

Your "question" is an acceptance of the liberal anti-populist politics that are the other side of the coin of the populist radical right. I don't care (outside an academic interest) about the question for the Democratic Party, I'm interested in the working class.

LBJ affects to be some sort of radical but he's as closely wedded to the status quo with some minor presentational tweaks as his recent posts suggest

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A position that neither I, nor Smokeandsteam, ever proposed.

Your "question" is an acceptance of the liberal anti-populist politics that are the other side of the coin of the populist radical right. I don't care (outside an academic interest) about the question for the Democratic Party, I'm interested in the working class.

Smokeandsteam specifically referenced the 70 million who voted for Trump and the Republicans.

So fine, you're answering a different question, but if you don't want to reference the electoral system in the US, it's probably better not to reference the numbers voting for each party.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Is that what passes for 'moderate' these days?

 

[Winot]

The answer to the question is that you can't win most of those 70 million over.

Well that’s a profoundly pessimistic take. Do you think the same is true in the UK?

 

[Pickman's model]

The answer to the question is that you can't win most of those 70 million over.

on the grounds that...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

this isn't true really is it - did you miss the summer of riots against the status quo or something?

Seriously? That’s your strategy to peel 70 million people away?

I’ll just say this, in the absence of positive utopias people will continue to retreat into reactionary ones especially in a period where there are successive capitalist crises and elite liberals offer no alternative.

Most of those hand wringing now about "fascism" have spent the last decade undermining any moderately left-wing alternative and striving to restore the status quo - providing fertile ground for the Trump and others of a similar ilk.

Only a forceful, pro working class politics directly counter posed to Trumpism and Biden provide an alternative, without it yesterday may well be opening salvo of a very dark decade to come.

But you carry on...

 

[killer b]

Seriously? That’s your strategy to peel 70 million people away?

I wasn't proposing a strategy to peel 70 million people away, I was contradicting a blatantly untrue statement.

 

[maomao]

If you accept that 70 million can't be won over then the next reasonable course of action is civil war of some kind. Or rather an escalation of the current slow civil war.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I wasn't proposing a strategy to peel 70 million people away.

No you definitely weren’t

 

[Pickman's model]

Seriously? That’s your strategy to peel 70 million people away?

I’ll just say this, in the absence of positive utopias people will continue to retreat into reactionary ones especially in a period where there are successive capitalist crises and elite liberals offer no alternative.

Most of those hand wringing now about "fascism" have spent the last decade undermining any moderately left-wing alternative and striving to restore the status quo - providing fertile ground for the Trump and others of a similar ilk.

Only a forceful, pro working class politics directly counter posed to Trumpism and Biden provide an alternative, without it yesterday may well be opening salvo of a very dark decade to come.

But you carry on...

Er there is another less palatable alternative

 

[Lord Camomile]

If you accept that 70 million can't be won over then the next reasonable course of action is civil war of some kind. Or rather an escalation of the current slow civil war.

The only question is, do you side with the personification of military propaganda or the weapons-dealing billionaire?

(Surprisingly to me, I ended up siding with the walking, talking American flag)

 

[killer b]

No you definitely weren’t

does every post have to be a political manifesto or something?

 

[chilango]

What's most concerning, to me at least, about the events of last night is the complete absence of any serious intervention by the Left.

 

[cloudyday]

Blue Labor

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well that’s a profoundly pessimistic take. Do you think the same is true in the UK?

I think it's generally true, yes. If you want to change things meaningfully, you'll always be up against a chunk of the population that likes things as they are. Can you think of a place where this isn't true?

 

[bimble]

Wait why does what happened yesterday lead to talk about having to win over 70 million people ? To what end?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Er there is another less palatable alternative

There definitely is

 

[Smokeandsteam]

does every post have to be a political manifesto or something?

CBA

 

[bimble]

What's most concerning, to me at least, about the events of last night is the complete absence of any serious intervention by the Left.

I wonder this too. How come the red hats seemed from footage to go totally unopposed and have full control of the area.

 

[rutabowa]

The lesson a lot of Americans will be drawing from the last 24 hours is that if you are sick to death of the status quo - and want to fight it - that there is only one side fighting. That has to change.

The BLM riots earlier this year definitely show there is not only one side fighting against the status quo, and they were all over the news so every american will have been aware of them whether they were for or against them.

 

[killer b]

CBA

dude, I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, but the post I was replying to is pure bullshit.