US election 2020 thread
- Thread starter petee
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Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
OK, I concede that.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm not exactly a watcher of US politics of late but I got the feeling the Dems went reasonably hard on this last time, but were 'trumped' when he got together a press conference of women who had alleged they had been abused by Bill Clinton. And then there's the allegations against Biden. He's tried to pass these as off as being 'tactile'
but it will still be an area of weakness for the Dems. So, yes here we go, consecutive Presidential Elections with multiple accusations of rape, sexual assault and inappropriate behaviour against both candidates or their spouse/former President.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Reminds me of the attempted impeachment of Bill Clinton. At the time, much of the left came out with the line this was moralistic nonsense (the Monica Lewinski part of it) and that it was a cynical attempt by Republicans to get him out. Whilst the latter was true, I always felt uncomfortable with this even if we didn't know the extent of the abuse allegations at the time. There was certainly a disinterest in what Paula Jones had to say.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
I'm not exactly a watcher of US politics of late but I got the feeling the Dems went reasonably hard on this last time, but were 'trumped' when he got together a press conference of women who had alleged they had been abused by Bill Clinton. And then there's the allegations against Biden. He's tried to pass these as off as being 'tactile'
People are familiar with the accusations against Trump yet still voted for him. It’s a known thing, nothing for the Democrats to gain from highlighting it, and something to lose If it’s turned round with accusations against Biden who isn’t widely known to be a creep.
Shitty that it‘s like this, but I can understand why it’s not been raised.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
absolutely. That's why I think there's zero point in the Dems zeroing in on that. Those allegations have been around forever. If people weren't turned off voting for him on those grounds alone (or mainly on those grounds) by now, they never will be. There's simply zero mileage in it.
bimble
floofy
Yes. I think thats the biggest cause of the physical sick feeling i had that morning 4 years ago when i woke up and saw that he'd won. That everyone knew, it was even on tape, but it didn't matter, they voted for him anyway. It seems to me that a not insignificant part of his base didn't need to turn a blind eye to the sexual abuse [allegalations] but found them part of the appeal.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Trump doesn't deny his behaviour, he openly brags about it. It doesn't hurt him if it is brought up. They're concentrating on things that do undermine him, his ability to handle or even care about the pandemic and mass joblessness due to the real economy (as opposed to the Dow Jones) being flushed down the shitter.
JimW
支那暗杀团
"Just locker room talk" as if this was normal and what anyone does. Fucking hell.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
jut saw a trump tv ad - in nyc!
he's wearing a mask in every picture, slo-mo of him striding purposefully, lots of golden sunlight, we're recovering and it's morning in america again.
it's during footballl when he might get his audience, but it's a lost cause here, an example of the wasted money his campaign is noted for.
he's wearing a mask in every picture, slo-mo of him striding purposefully, lots of golden sunlight, we're recovering and it's morning in america again.
it's during footballl when he might get his audience, but it's a lost cause here, an example of the wasted money his campaign is noted for.
bimble
floofy
His whole thing is regressive masculinity though, that’s the appeal, it’s not just an inconvenient garnish it’s the actual you know, burger.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
In fact, his two elections - 2016 and this year - will be one of the very, very few instances where a candidate loses (heavily) in his home state
petee
no gods, no malarkey
His whole thing is regressive masculinity though, that’s the appeal, it’s not just an inconvenient garnish it’s the actual you know, burger.
not a few women voters go for it just as well.
i have to point that out as recently i heard again the statistic that a small majority of women voted for trump in 2016. i've always found that hard to believe, but there it seems to be. h. clinton's unlikability isn't sufficient reason imho.
that's just not true.
bimble
floofy
oh i know. That statistic (a majority of white women it was not a majority of all women) that was a shock to take in, but yeah plenty of appeal amongst some women for some caricature of 'back when men were men' etc.
I've had this idea for a while that i find helpful:
What if Trumps's most ardent supporters are a lot like the kids at school who used to be drawn to and hang around the bully. Its not that they actually like him its more that they are messed up and scared - of him as well everything else (in trumps case scared of change and complexity and losing their place in the social order) and seek the bully's protection. Making it really hard to leave that relationship as well.
Yossarian
⏭️
Exit polls in 2016 suggested that 52% of white women voted for Trump, and he repeated the statistic about a zillion times in the following years, more accurate polling later on said it was more like 48% for Clinton and 45% for Trump. Among Black women, Pew's poll says 98% for Clinton and * for Trump.
www.pewresearch.org
An examination of the 2016 electorate, based on validated voters
One of the biggest challenges facing those who seek to understand U.S. elections is establishing an accurate portrait of the American electorate and the
www.pewresearch.org
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ermm...was a link meant to be in there?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ahhhh....
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I suspect there were a set of reasons they voted for Trump, not least of which was that they were habitual Republican voters anyway, along with those who believed Washington had abandoned them and that Hilary was part of that. I think for most of them there was some sort of cognitive dissonance or just not caring enough about his rapey reputation. Perhaps as you say, the worst of those people saw it, in some kind of horrendous logic, as the alpha male striking back in the culture wars or something. ONe of the worst people on the planet managing to key into one of the worst bits in human psyche and politics of the early 20th Century (or summat). But yeah, I do find it hard to see why multiple accusations of sexual assault and rape could be ignored, at the very point he owned up to it.
the purpose of the Bill Clinton survivors roll call the republicans got together around this was mostly to allow those people the freedom to think 'well they're all at it anyway'I suspect there were a set of reasons they voted for Trump, not least of which was that they were habitual Republican voters anyway, along with those who believed Washington had abandoned them and that Hilary was part of that. I think for most of them there was some sort of cognitive dissonance or just not caring enough about his rapey reputation. Perhaps as you say, the worst of those people saw it, in some kind of horrendous logic, as the alpha male striking back in the culture wars or something. ONe of the worst people on the planet managing to key into one of the worst bits in human psyche and politics of the early 20th Century (or summat). But yeah, I do find it hard to see why multiple accusations of sexual assault and rape could be ignored, at the very point he owned up to it.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm glad Biden wears a mask in public, of course, but not sure why when he's doing a speech outside. Can't imagine there are camera/audio people too close to him.
just to keep nailing it home 'this is the guy who's taking it seriously'. it's visual rhetoric rather than PPE in this case.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
more
Man In Militia Plot To Kidnap Michigan Governor Shared Stage With Extremist Sheriff
Sheriff Dar Leaf stood with the militiaman at an anti-lockdown rally. He's part of the "constitutional sheriffs" movement, a close ally of America's far-right paramilitaries.
In a shocking interview with Fox 17 on Thursday, Leaf said he had no regrets for having appeared at the rally with the recently arrested militiaman. He added that he knew Null — as well as his identical twin, Michael, who was also arrested in the terror plot — and called the brothers “nice” and “respectful.” He also appeared to defend the Nulls’ motive for the alleged kidnapping plot, arguing that there’s a legal argument to be made that Whitmer should be arrested for imposing coronavirus restrictions.
What Leaf did not address in his Fox 17 interview, however, is his membership in the right-wing extremist “constitutional sheriffs” movement — a close ally of America’s armed militias — that has gained a concerning momentum during the era of President Donald Trump.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yeah, good point, though he can't stop messing with the thing.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
It didn't look like it was a very good fit, kept falling down exposing his nose ..
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