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US election 2020 thread

Bloke on Sky just now pointing out that Trump supporters outside the counting offices in Arizona were chanting "COUNT THE VOTE, COUNT THE VOTE!", whilst those outside the offices in Pennsylvania are shouting "STOP THE COUNT, STOP THE COUNT!" :D
So if the latest results change things in either state will they change the chant? :hmm: no need to reply i think i know the awnser!
 
The problem with counting votes received which are postmarked on polling day is this, a postmark cannot be relied on.

One of the curses of philately is cancellation devices 'in the wild'.

Now it is even more simple, laser print the cancellation. Impossible to tell without subjecting it to high magnification inspection.

If you look at who's in charge of the United States Postal Service, any problem with postal voting is far more likely to be result of the mail being deliberately slowed down - a federal judge ordered the USPS to sweep facilities in 12 districts for unsent ballots Tuesday afternoon, and the service ignored the order. By their own estimate, 8,000 ballots in swing states weren't delivered in time.
 
All this voter suppression stuff really brings it home as to why black voters, especially in the South, can be so militant about exercising their right to vote - even if it's for uninspiring beige candidates like Biden. Centuries long system of oppression
 
I'm just c+p Corey Robin's analysis that he posted on facebook. I think the third and forth points are quite illuminating and does show the increasing dysfunction and crisis of legitimacy that is on going.


My four takeaways so far.
First, I hoped for better things.
Second, one Republican elected official after another is refusing to back Trump's efforts not to count the votes. The party has obviously decided that control over the Senate is more than enough to suit its purposes.
Third, with a party that many claimed always submitted itself to Trump's will (but was in fact more than happy to oppose Trump whenever it suited their purposes) not submitting to Trump's will, with tweets not having the intended effect, with street gangs not materializing on anywhere near a sufficient scale to implement the leader's will, it seems clear that Trump's only hope lies in the courts. Which may not be there for him either.
But it's important to remember that, in the end, Trump's whole career now depends on what it has always depended on: not the apparatus of fascism but lawyers and judges. And that the Republicans are happy with the Senate.
Fourth, my biggest fear throughout the last four years has been that we would be facing an extended interregnum of back-and-forth, wherein an exhausted neoliberal Democratic Party trades power and office with an exhausted right-wing Republican Party. Last night's results (insofar as we know them) seem to confirm that that is where we are. Biden's presidency will be an awful lot like Obama's second term and even Trump's presidency: not in terms of content or substance, but in terms of having to rely, almost exclusively, on executive orders and action, and not being able to push a legislative agenda through.
In other words, four years of stuckness. Which is definitely better than the alternative of four more years of Trump, but not really moving us anywhere either.
 
The problem with counting votes received which are postmarked on polling day is this, a postmark cannot be relied on.

One of the curses of philately is cancellation devices 'in the wild'.

Now it is even more simple, laser print the cancellation. Impossible to tell without subjecting it to high magnification inspection.
Royal mail sometimes don't postmark anyway. I don't know if usps are the same.
 
If you look at who's in charge of the United States Postal Service, any problem with postal voting is far more likely to be result of the mail being deliberately slowed down - a federal judge ordered the USPS to sweep facilities in 12 districts for unsent ballots Tuesday afternoon, and the service ignored the order. By their own estimate, 8,000 ballots in swing states weren't delivered in time.
300k in Florida
 
There are many ways to commit election fraud. This sounds like one of the harder ways to me. How would you do it? You would need to get hold of a list of people who didn't vote and get their votes in on their behalf. How likely is this to happen?
Yeah, that's a thing only in the fevered imaginations of right wingers who want to stop people who aren't them from voting
 
Enough to swing the result?
Not quite but close.
The story may have developed since I read it - like USPS claiming they'd checked and it was votes that had been delivered but not scanned out of their depots or whatever but it's all a bit :hmm:
 
Royal mail sometimes don't postmark anyway. I don't know if usps are the same.

Yes, they are. Blue biro cancellations are common.

Fucking infuriating.

I appreciate that philatelists appear somewhat odd to others, mainly because we are. :) We look forwards as well as back. It is important that a cover has exactly the right amount of postage for the purpose of the cover. I sent twenty single stamp covers to the US, £1.28, a short lived stamp issue. Three arrived with a postmark. That of course was RM inefficiency.

If you go to Ebay, you will find that you can buy first class stamps, not cancelled, no glue, for a fraction of the PO price. They have been soaked off uncancelled mail.
 
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With around 200k votes still to be counted. :thumbs:
Just slightly cautious of those numbers just because they seem to have a fair bit of elasticity - probs because votes still filter through the system for a few days afterwards before they hit the counting centres. But yeah, plenty in the tank yet
 
300k in Florida

The USPS said 300k ballots had received entry scans but not exit scans so couldn't be traced - they argued that many of them hadn't received exit scans because clerks had pulled them out for expedited delivery, but I wouldn't be too surprised if some of them turned up under Louis DeJoy's sofa or wherever.
 
For those wondering why this is so drawn out, this short piece (read it!) from the Guardian blog a few hours ago is interesting and informative. Basically this didn't have to happen and is another form of voter suppression from the Republicans.

Did you know that much of the stress, agitation and uncertainty about the election result in the United States over the past two days did not have to happen?

That the drawn-out ballot counts we saw and are seeing in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania do not owe to the races being particularly close in those states, which they were not, but to artificially produced bottlenecks?

The long counts are another kind of voter suppression, the product of rules imposed in those states by Republican-controlled legislatures that in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania allowed for no early processing of the mail-in vote – despite the pandemic – and in Michigan allowed for only one day of early processing.

The sense of there being a dynamic in these races in which Biden “came from behind” is artificial, the result of vote tallies from densely and highly populated, disproportionately Democratic areas – ie, cities – taking longer.

Everyone saw this problem coming. They also saw how Trump would attempt to take advantage of the uncertainty by stealing the election, which he is, although the effort, as historically dangerous and destructive as it is, does not look particularly brilliant.

Elections officials from both parties in the states in question pleaded with the Republican legislatures for more time to process votes early, as they do in other states with Republican-controlled legislatures such as Ohio, Florida and yes, Arizona, where the race happens to have been truly close.

The Wisconsin race looks like the sides could be separated by as little as one point, but that’s not unusual for Wisconsin. Biden appears to have won Michigan by more than two points – not a razor margin – and the same appears to be the case in Pennsylvania, where Biden appears to be doubling Trump’s 2016 margin of victory in the state at least, maybe tripling it, although obviously we’re awaiting the final tally.

A couple weeks ago the Guardian asked Tom Ridge, a former Republican governor of Pennsylvania who is a strong Trump critic and democracy advocate, about why local election officials in Pennsylvania, who are nonpartisan public servants doing hard work for not much compensation under intense pressure, were not given more time beforehand to process the ballot.

Ridge blamed partisan poison leading to a failure in negotiations between the Democratic governor and Republican legislature to set new rules.

“I had hoped that both the Republican legislature and the Democrat governor could put aside their differences and at least, at the very minimum, let these local election officials who by the way are both Republican and Democrat, begin the pre-canvassing before election day, with a clean bill,” Ridge said, continuing:

There is no inherent political advantage one, to absentee voting – this is not one party or the other doesn’t have an advantage
There’s no reason for the governor and the legislature not to enable local officials to begin the simple act of processing, not even counting but processing those ballots, to verify and validate signatures.
If they were interested in the legitimacy of an outcome, and I know both are, there’s no reason whatsoever that they can’t begin the processing.
And it’s a political stalemate in my mind unworthy of Pennsylvania voters.
The political environment is toxic, and certainly the president has contributed to that.
But on Wednesday the Republican majority leader of the Pennsylvania House had the temerity to blame Democrats for the vote- counting backlog:

ep. Kerry Benninghoff

@RepBenninghoff

The failure of Pennsylvania to have firm election results on Election Day is an openly partisan failure by Democrats from the Wolf administration to the PA Supreme Court.

The replies to the tweet are pretty rich – and be warned that many of them are NSFW.
 
The USPS said 300k ballots had received entry scans but not exit scans so couldn't be traced - they argued that many of them hadn't received exit scans because clerks had pulled them out for expedited delivery, but I wouldn't be too surprised if some of them turned up under Louis DeJoy's sofa or wherever.
Cheers - you probs saw that I vaguely remembered it that way so glad you confirmed! Fact remains that USPS were ordered to get undelivered ballots to counting centres immediately by a justice on election day and they just went 'no'
 
All this voter suppression stuff really brings it home as to why black voters, especially in the South, can be so militant about exercising their right to vote - even if it's for uninspiring beige candidates like Biden. Centuries long system of oppression


I read recently that voting rates in the US dropped from about 80% in the 1890s to 50% in 1920, largely because of deliberate voter suppression measures

E2a. You don't need a source. It's true because I said it is
 
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c'mon georgia. ive heard that the result should be in around 5pm. Sweet victory if that one goes blue - considering the amount of blatant and overtly racist voter supression thats been happening there for ... centuries
 
Is that Dothraki ? are we about to be overrun by warriors from the sea of grass ?

or is it a quote from Klingon opera ? its not over until the fat lady with a cornish pasty slapped on her forehead , sings .
 
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