Urban v's the Commentariat

[Serge Forward]

Bastani is a bit of a dick but those people with the paragliding stickers are cunts.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Agree.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Bastani is a bit of a dick but those people with the paragliding stickers are cunts.

The only photograph I have seen showed the stickers on two individuals’ backs.

Are you certain that they knew they were there? If so, why?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

R

I agree his comment was fair enough. I agree with it.

Do you agree with him reposting the photo? Is this something Libcom would do?

 

[kropotkin]

God knows what libcom would do- haven't visited the site in about a decade.

I don't think him reposting the photo of those two girls with paragliders stuck to their shoulder is bad, no.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

God knows what libcom would do- haven't visited the site in about a decade.

I don't think him reposting the photo of those two girls with paragliders stuck to their shoulder is bad, no.

Ah ok. “Libcom” is stil your tagline on here, hence the mention. If you don’t have 63.8k followers on twitter the question is less relevant tbf.

 

[Brainaddict]

AB has posted about the ongoing furore and, to give credit where it's due, I don't think you can fault the response:

 

[Fozzie Bear]

AB has posted about the ongoing furore and, to give credit where it's due, I don't think you can fault the response:

Sounds like a challenge to me!

Here goes:

Bastani -

"I have, at no point, said those individuals should face prosection - let alone 'collaborated' with the police, an insinuation which is wholly inaccurate"

Mohammed El-Kurd -

"One might argue that Aaron Bastani’s actions fall within the realm of free speech, however, exploiting an atmosphere that is already hostile to Palestinians and collaborating with the British establishment to smear, police, and punish us and our allies sounds less like free speech and more like harassment and incitement. "

This aspect of Bastani's response is a straw man and is disingenuous.

 

[Brainaddict]

I think the original accusation of 'collaboration' was disingenuous. I think it was particularly nasty to associate 'collaboration' with the word 'police', that was done to get maximum outrage points. So I think AB has responded to the spirit of the accusation just fine

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I think the original accusation of 'collaboration' was disingenuous. I think it was particularly nasty to association 'collaboration' with the word 'police', that was done to get maximum outrage points. So I think AB has responded to the spirit of the accusation just fine

I have some sympathy with that and we are getting into language really.

I don't know Mohammed El-Kurd but it is entirely possible that he was using "policing" entirely correctly as a disciplinary activity by the establishment and the media. Or not.

I suspect, as with so many ailments in the current era, that Foucault is probably to blame somehow.

 

[Brainaddict]

I find it all rather bizarre and the public accusation to be almost absurd. There's lots of annoying things AB says, but to question whether leftists are allowed to openly debate forms of protest expression in the age of social media is a bit ridiculous. The worst thing you can say about it is that it was piling on to some idiots who will probably regret what they did in a few years, but since tabloids etc were commenting on it anyway, he's hardly made it worse for them, and as a 'commentator' it was hardly the worst thing he's felt the need to comment on. I think to call it policing is wrong - such issues have to be debated, and there's no option but to debate them in public these days.

 

[CNT36]

I think the original accusation of 'collaboration' was disingenuous. I think it was particularly nasty to associate 'collaboration' with the word 'police', that was done to get maximum outrage points. So I think AB has responded to the spirit of the accusation just fine

He even used the word insinuated so I think you're spot on. It is probably how he first read it and no doubt others will have as well.

 

[ska invita]

Not The Andrew Marr Show pinning themselves to the cranks list

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Surely calling yourselves "Not the Andrew Marr Show" puts you on the cranks list from the off?

 

[ska invita]

Surely calling yourselves "Not the Andrew Marr Show" puts you on the cranks list from the off?

Fair certainly shows their age

 

[hitmouse]

Not The Andrew Marr Show pinning themselves to the cranks list

View attachment 422938

I like how that sentence can be read at least two ways, are you familiar with the vaguely camp online not?

 

[ska invita]

What a cunt

 

[The Pale King]

However good his novels and broader writing are, he's always been politically imbecilic, like his pals Martin Amis and Ian McEwan.

 

[ska invita]

However good his novels and broader writing are, he's always been politically imbecilic, like his pals Martin Amis and Ian McEwan.

I mean i can see why he might be grudgeful but agree its utterly imbecilic for a supposed public intellectual

 

[hitmouse]

Just had a look at Novara and fuck me, this one is quite a retraction to have to publish:

Gary and Jack Lubner Apology | Novara Media

On 9 April 2024 we published a video entitled "The TRUTH About Labour’s Pro-Israel Mega-Donor." The video claimed without any evidence that Gary Lubner was an apartheid profiteer and falsely alleged that Gary and Jack Lubner have close ties to and are supportive of the Israeli Government. We...

novaramedia.com

On 9 April 2024 we published a video entitled “The TRUTH About Labour’s Pro-Israel Mega-Donor.” The video claimed without any evidence that Gary Lubner was an apartheid profiteer and falsely alleged that Gary and Jack Lubner have close ties to and are supportive of the Israeli Government. We wish to make clear that the allegations within the video against Gary and Jack Lubner were false and based upon a single unreliable article. We failed in our duties in publishing these false allegations.
We have now removed the video and provided our sincere apologies to the Lubner family, including in respect of the anti-Semitic abuse they have suffered as a result of the video’s publication. We are pleased to make clear that Gary Lubner was an anti-apartheid activist and led anti-Apartheid organisations through the 1980s. He worked closely with leading figures in the anti-apartheid movement to help bring about change in South Africa. He also at Mr Mandela’s own request, served as a Trustee on the Nelson Mandela Legacy Trust.
Further Gary and Jack Lubner are not supportive of and do not have ties to the Israeli Government and are not lobbyists on its behalf. Rather, they are proud British Jews who have worked towards a just peace that affords Palestinians and Israelis self-determination, dignity and human rights. We are told that, whilst most of Gary’s philanthropy is focussed on South Africa and the UK, he has contributed to numerous human rights organisations active in Israel and Palestine. Gary has made significant contributions to charities working to alleviate the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, AS WELL AS a number of victims and families of the October 7 Hamas attack, We once again apologise to the Lubner family for publishing these defamatory allegations and, in recognition of this, we have made a sizeable charitable donation to World Central Kitchen and Community Security Trust in their name.

 

[chilango]

I haven't looked at Novara for months (years?). What are they like these days?

 

[hitmouse]

Probably fairly similar to how they used to be, although it looks like they've just given the site a bit of a redesign. Other than that correction, don't think I saw anything that massively surprised me. Hadn't seen this story before, it's worthwhile and not something that'd make it into most media outlets:

Science Museum Grasses on Workers Protesting Tommy Robinson | Novara Media

The museum praised a demonstration against Tommy Robinson – then wrote to the police about striking staff joining in.

novaramedia.com

Shoddy behaviour from Prospect and the FDA there.
Bastani and the other talking heads are probably still annoying but easy enough to decide what you want to engage with.

 

[Brainaddict]

I haven't looked at Novara for months (years?). What are they like these days?

If anything a bit improved following the Corbyn-fandom years, when it became too predictable and social democratic. But the only regular commentator I like is Ash Sarkar, so I don't consume shedloads of it. I have time for James Butler too but he's mostly moved upmarket to the LRB I think.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

There is a fairly diverse set of contributors but this is probably a good summary of where the flagship show is at:



Essentially “if you went to focus groups you would know that normal people react badly to your crazy far left ideas”.

 

[Brainaddict]

There is a fairly diverse set of contributors but this is probably a good summary of where the flagship show is at:



Essentially “if you went to focus groups you would know that normal people react badly to your crazy far left ideas”.

Yeah, that conversation is a mess, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to say, from a far left-ish position, that we shouldn't be foregrounding police abolition or family abolition - people do think that stuff is crazy and it is very offputting to many. Where they go wrong is deciding it's all about persuasion. What I reckon is that we have to focus on economic security and supporting each other first, then we can propose these social policies that currently seem a bit far out to people (or at least, the economic and social changes have to be intertwined).

 

[ska invita]

Yeah, that conversation is a mess, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to say, from a far left-ish position, that we shouldn't be foregrounding police abolition or family abolition - people do think that stuff is crazy and it is very offputting to many. Where they go wrong is deciding it's all about persuasion. What I reckon is that we have to focus on economic security and supporting each other first, then we can propose these social policies that currently seem a bit far out to people (or at least, the economic and social changes have to be intertwined).

The word Abolition is a total turn off and fuck up....family abolition is actually about widening community care and mutual aid...police abolition is actually about crime prevention through material support...99% of people hear the word abolition and think loony left and thats the end of it even though they would much more likely agree with the substance if it wasnt packaged so badly

 

[Fozzie Bear]

But I think you can chuck abolition into a some conversations with some people and say exactly what you two have just said.

 

[ska invita]

But I think you can chuck abolition into a some conversations with some people and say exactly what you two have just said.

yeah i guess...i would never use it myself.....from my understanding abolition is a word with bigger significance in the US experience where "abolitionism" has more resonance...and it has come to GB from the US and lost context on the way.

anyhow above all i lean populist.... i want left ideas to be normalised and common sense in their presentation, not loaded with counter culture, edgeyness or academic speak. theres room for all the other stuff too of course, and it helps bring certain people in via that route, but on its own its a cul-de-sac

 

[petee]

99% of people hear the word abolition and think loony left and thats the end of it even though they would much more likely agree with the substance if it wasnt packaged so badly

the phrase "abolish the police" was a gift to rightwingers here in the states.

 

[LDC]

There is a fairly diverse set of contributors but this is probably a good summary of where the flagship show is at:



Essentially “if you went to focus groups you would know that normal people react badly to your crazy far left ideas”.

Politically flailing about with what to actually do re: political activity and organising, I mean it's all about 'persuasion', is that what they've come to? A bit of a pathetic state for these intellectual commentators.