Urban v's the Commentariat

[ska invita]

Politically flailing about with what to actually do re: political activity and organising, I mean it's all about 'persuasion', is that what they've come to? A bit of a pathetic state for these intellectual commentators.

they're journalists and commentariat so of course above all its about language and communication and therefore persuasion <thats what they do.

 

[LDC]

Have you watched the video? The actual title of the piece is 'Is the left dangerously out of touch?' so they were discussing what that left needs to do, not just them personally. I'd assume both would also consider themselves part of some wider left project rather than just detached journalists anyway, that's what NM trades on in part.

 

[The39thStep]

Politically flailing about with what to actually do re: political activity and organising, I mean it's all about 'persuasion', is that what they've come to? A bit of a pathetic state for these intellectual commentators.

I can't remember the last time I oriented around focus groups and NGOs. Seemed to me that these were tips for using social media rather than organising in communities or at work.

 

[two sheds]

I don't really understand the reliance on focus groups, either. The policies that are really popular when national surveys are done are things like support the NHS, nationalize railways and water companies and the like. I suspect, too, that they'd include things like tackling insane rents and house prices. With focus groups I'm assuming they limit the scope of the questions to things that won't actually cost anything.

 

[LDC]

I can't remember the last time I oriented around focus groups and NGOs. Seemed to me that these were tips for using social media rather than organising in communities or at work.

Yeah, I think they're pretty confused really, probably in part due to their position as 'activists' turned popular commentators / journalists. And to be an older moaner they do seem to be of that much more online orientated London-based left. They were properly sucked into, and propagated, Labour under Corbyn as well so must have been politically disillusioned by that as well.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It is also striking that Michael Walker seems to think everyone in the UK woke up one day and had been spontaneously persuaded that gay marriage was ok.

 

[agricola]

Politically flailing about with what to actually do re: political activity and organising, I mean it's all about 'persuasion', is that what they've come to? A bit of a pathetic state for these intellectual commentators.

This is doubly annoying because we have just gone through that rare form of general election where, across the country, local candidates supported by normal people appealed to local issues (rather than on a party slate / "vote for the leader") and significantly more of them than usual were successful at getting elected. There is no future of success in a centrally-led and inspired party (of the left, right, centre or anything else); there is far more of a future in a group of people who honestly represent their constitutents, their local wants and concerns and who collectively come up with left-wing solutions for them.

 

[LDC]

It is also striking that Michael Walker seems to think everyone in the UK woke up one day and had been spontaneously persuaded that gay marriage was ok.

Of all of them he seems the most personable and reasonable though, I quite like his more gentle 'class war social democrat' persona and politics, at least he seems more honest and with less of an ego than the others.

 

[Rob Ray]

Honestly for me it's the other way, I think Walker's analysis has always been weak and his trend has been towards staid cobweb leftism resting on old radical laurels. Sarkar at least has a bit more thinking process going on, and Bastani is having an identity crisis because he likes to think of himself as intellectually probing, but actually has a hint of the Rogan in his willingness to suck up and regurgitate bad ideas without much in the way of pushback (his recent interview with Paul Morland being a particular example). I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he breaks right at some point, he definitely has a traditionalist streak. They're very much missing James Butler imv, he was easily their most thoughtful contributor (presumably why the LRB nabbed him).

Collectively Novara's biggest problem is they largely rejected radicalism to pick up with Corbynism and have had no idea what to do with themselves since then, other than chug along with a sort of Young Turks style commentary/interview output aimed at a general "leftie respectability" angle. Which is fine in its way but not a lot of point in looking to them for a direction, as they don't reallly have one.

 

[ska invita]

Of all of them he seems the most personable and reasonable though, I quite like his more gentle 'class war social democrat' persona and politics, at least he seems more honest and with less of an ego than the others.

i agree with that to the point i checked his own podcast once - and it was only once - it had him apologising for his days as a student protester and describing it as a phase and generally denouncing the stupidity of it all. which is honest i guess!! things is those student fees protests were impactful and 'radicalised' (to whatever extent) a generation, even if they failed in their aim

 

[ska invita]

This is doubly annoying because we have just gone through that rare form of general election where, across the country, local candidates supported by normal people appealed to local issues (rather than on a party slate / "vote for the leader") and significantly more of them than usual were successful at getting elected. There is no future of success in a centrally-led and inspired party (of the left, right, centre or anything else); there is far more of a future in a group of people who honestly represent their constitutents, their local wants and concerns and who collectively come up with left-wing solutions for them.

tbf novara shows covered and gave platform to the independents IIRC

 

[LDC]

Honestly for me it's the other way, I think Walker's analysis has always been weak and his trend has been towards staid cobweb leftism resting on old radical laurels. Sarkar at least has a bit more thinking process going on, and Bastani is having an identity crisis because he likes to think of himself as intellectually probing, but actually has a hint of the Rogan in his willingness to suck up and regurgitate bad ideas without much in the way of pushback (his recent interview with Paul Morland being a particular example). I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he breaks right at some point, he definitely has a traditionalist streak. They're very much missing James Butler imv, he was easily their most thoughtful contributor (presumably why the LRB nabbed him).

Collectively Novara's biggest problem is they largely rejected radicalism to pick up with Corbynism and have had no idea what to do with themselves since then, other than chug along with a sort of Young Turks style commentary/interview output aimed at a general "leftie respectability" angle. Which is fine in its way but not a lot of point in looking to them for a direction, as they don't reallly have one.

Oh his analysis is shit, he just seems the nicest of the bunch! I agree with what you wrote about the others. I know the northern correspondent, he's really sound, shame he got mixed up with them tbh. (Actually just looking at their website he's not on there, wonder if it's still a thing? He seems to have left Twitter as well.)

 

[Rob Ray]

They've got some decent individual contributors knocking about yeah, I tend to think of them as Guardian Fringe these days.