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Urban v's the Commentariat

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1835/jun/01/disturbance-at-wolverhampton
Notwithstanding there appeared to have been very little confusion or disorder, the military were called in, and the Riot Act having been read, they charged the people. The result was, that one man received a shot, in consequence of which his leg had to be amputated; another person was wounded, and would probably be lamed for life; and a third received a bullet, which had been attended with serious consequences—so much so, that the individual's life was endangered. He understood the military went about the town singly and in pairs, firing through doors, so that it was extraordinary many lives had not been lost.
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Penny on the plight of creatives, CEOs and consultants of london



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toggle said:
it is. but there's an unfortunate number of people who consider that anyhting offered to any group that is compensatory for any form of disability/problem/illness/need/etc is a direct attack on everyone else. the sort who would complain that someone needing time off if they had periods that were cripplingly painful should allow them days off cause they suffer by not being allowed to go play golf. the sort with the complete lack of empathy that won't allow them to comprehend that someone would probably rather be at work feeling fine than at home feeling like their insides were being torn out
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All true except when it comes to periods, the need to allow time off isn't just about any extreme pain that might be present. During menstruation, progesterone and estrogen are at their lowest levels. This affects our ability to physically 'get things done'. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard women say they don't feel like doing anything during their period. They almost always sound surprised when I tell them it's meant to be a time of rest. Problem is, in this current climate in which we're increasingly expected to be 'superhuman', and anything that sounds like gender essentialism is dismissed, we're moving even further away from this type of understanding.
 
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Jezebelle said:
All true except when it comes to periods, the need to allow time off isn't just about any extreme pain that might be present. During menstruation, progesterone and estrogen are at their lowest levels. This affects our ability to physically 'get things done'. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard women say they don't feel like doing anything during their period. They almost always sound surprised when I tell them it's meant to be a time of rest. Problem is, in this current climate in which we're increasingly expected to be 'superhuman', and anything that sounds like gender essentialism is dismissed, we're moving even further away from this type of understanding.
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That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation though - not all women experience periods in the same way, some sail through, some suffer excruciating agony, some are in-between, and each period can be different for the same woman in any case, not to mention that the ability 'to get things done' as you put it being affected (or not) by hormone levels. What about women who don't experience periods for a variety of reasons?

I don't feel like going to work for a whole number of reasons on any given day - they're generally not related to my gender or my biology.
 
equationgirl said:
That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation though - not all women experience periods in the same way, some sail through, some suffer excruciating agony, some are in-between, and each period can be different for the same woman in any case, not to mention that the ability 'to get things done' as you put it being affected (or not) by hormone levels. What about women who don't experience periods for a variety of reasons?

I don't feel like going to work for a whole number of reasons on any given day - they're generally not related to my gender or my biology.
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I'm not sure which part is "a bit of a sweeping generalisation"? In her book 'Rethinking Menstruation', Dena Taylor documents a range of women's responses to periods. Almost all of them said they wanted to be left alone, and many spoke of wanting to curl up in bed and relax, sleep by themselves and avoid going out. Even if you think those findings are wrong, or not important since all women are different, does that mean we're not allowed to generalise, or have any kind of common experience based on either biology or changing gender expectations? Because that just sounds like anti-feminism to me.
 
Jezebelle said:
I'm not sure which part is "a bit of a sweeping generalisation"? In her book 'Rethinking Menstruation', Dena Taylor documents a range of women's responses to periods. Almost all of them said they wanted to be left alone, and many spoke of wanting to curl up in bed and relax, sleep by themselves and avoid going out. Even if you think those findings are wrong, or not important since all women are different, does that mean we're not allowed to generalise, or have any kind of common experience based on either biology or changing gender expectations? Because that just sounds like anti-feminism to me.
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Are you calling me an anti feminist because I posted an opinion contrary to your own?
Common experience based on biology is that most women have periods. A sweeping generalisation would be that women don't want to do anything during their period.

Do you see the difference between the two?

And going straight to 'that's anti feminist' is what many of the very commentariat this thread is about do.
 
equationgirl said:
Are you calling me an anti feminist because I posted an opinion contrary to your own?
Common experience based on biology is that most women have periods. A sweeping generalisation would be that women don't want to do anything during their period.

Do you see the difference between the two?

And going straight to 'that's anti feminist' is what many of the very commentariat this thread is about do.
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No, I'm clearly not saying what you wrote sounded anti-feminist simply because you disagreed with me. Be useful if you could tell me how it supports your perspective on feminism instead of just attacking me. Also, if I'm being accused of 'not towing the line' expected on this thread, then afraid I'm still confused. Much of it seems to be devoted to discussions on Laurie Penny and yet, she says stuff like, 'what about women who don't have children', like her? and 'what about women who are pansexual', like her? She doesn't appear to like generalisations either.
 
Jezebelle said:
No, I'm clearly not saying what you wrote sounded anti-feminist simply because you disagreed with me. Be useful if you could tell me how it supports your perspective on feminism instead of just attacking me. Also, if I'm being accused of 'not towing the line' expected on this thread, then afraid I'm still confused. Much of it seems to be devoted to discussions on Laurie Penny and yet, she says stuff like, 'what about women who don't have children', like her? and 'what about women who are pansexual', like her? She doesn't appear to like generalisations either.
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Then please explain how my original post was anti feminist.

And for the record please point out where I have attacked you.
 
Jezebelle said:
Much of it seems to be devoted to discussions on Laurie Penny and yet, she says stuff like, 'what about women who don't have children', like her? and 'what about women who are pansexual', like her? She doesn't appear to like generalisations either.
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Quick question, have you read far back through the thread. She's not averse to generalisations when it suits (such as claiming that anyone criticising her is a misogynist, for example). It would be fair to say that she's selective about what she considers worth covering and ignores things that many journalists would consider well worth checking out. And, while we're on the subject, her use of repeated hyperbole and her question able usage and interpretation of facts only does a disservice to whatever she's covering.

Also, you reference her referral to people like her. Well, there seems to be very little that in some way isn't about her, judging by her output. Her constantly injecting herself into each and every story, often at the expense of the subject matter and people involved, doesn't do her any favours either. Come to that, I'm also no fan of her lumping any and all critics in with trolls, misogyny and harassment while being happy to smear people when it suits her and, in the case of one story in particular, I consider her professional ethics more than slightly suspect. When a person threatens to commit suicide and professional bodies advise you not to run that particular story out of concern for that person's well-being and safety, then you shouldn't run that story. She did run it even after having received professional advice not to.
 
As with so many middle class children who turn to revolution in all its various forms, the promise of a violent overthrow of civilised society may simply be another way of making up for slights suffered in the school playground.
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Channelling Scott Walker there.
 
phildwyer said:
Innit. I've seen Martin Amis and Christopher Hitchens pushing this line too. This idea that being an adult male virgin is a weird, perverse condition and a recipe for unbearable sexual tension and psychosis. Says more about them and their 1960s background than anything else.
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It would be absurd to ascribe the whole phenomenon of jihadism to sexual frustration, but I don't believe it's an irrelevant point either. Think of Sean South, for example - before he was killed in the first action of the IRA's border campaign in 1956, he was known for going round the cinemas of Limerick, hunting for teenagers who might be engaged in acts of sin (mild kissing, that sort of thing) and forcibly separating them.

Even by the standards of 1950s Ireland, that was an eccentric way to behave, and I don't think it's unrelated to the rest of of South's politics, be it his physical-force nationalism or his anti-semitism.
 
el-ahrairah said:
it was just so amazingly hurtful. i'm almost in awe of it. i'm kind of a fan of being needlessly rude to liberals on the internet, but even i stopped and picked up my jaw.
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What Lewis neglects to mention is that the person responsible for that disgusting comment has also been a NS contributor. Makes you think.
 
The whole thing makes me feel a bit sick tbh. Although i do have to laugh at the new statesman being nicknamed 'the new terfman':D
 
Speaking of the NS, they've hauled Hari on board. It's like a mad liberal journo version of the Jolie shambles Unbroken. He's making stuff up already according to Jeremy Duns and others.
 
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