Urban v's the Commentariat

[Fozzie Bear]

Well yea its kind of missing the point behind no platform. And I dont like the way that this stuff is being used to, for example, shut up critics of the sex industry as someone who's done a bit of sex trafficking prevention work myself.

Yeah it's a bastardisation of the term in both tactics and in what it's being used to oppose. If you ramp up the outrage to 100% for Germaine Greer, what are you left with when something shows up which is actually dangerous?

 

[krink]

Works fine for me...

yep, and me now. ta

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah it's a bastardisation of the term in both tactics and in what it's being used to oppose. If you ramp up the outrage to 100% for Germaine Greer, what are you left with when something shows up which is actually dangerous?

Also as everyone knows screeching abuse at people who aren't fash or even opposed to your views in many cases isn't the best way of convincing them of your position, as has been established in endless discussions on ukip etc here.

 

[frogwoman]

Also not being funny but i can't take anyone that uses the term 'whorephobia' remotely seriously. Disliking the sex industry isn't remotely the same as disliking sex workers ffs.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am yet to be convinced that she poses a similar threat to organised fascist gangs.

let's make her speak to them and see what happens.

 

[frogwoman]

I'll be honest I fucking despise the sex industry and while i'm no terf i do have criticisms of, for example the thought of prescribing puberty blocking drugs to children unsure of their gender identity as is increasingly happening in the states. I think these are really complicated issues and I think they need to be discussed rationally. My views might be completely wrong but how are people going to be persuaded by such hostility, just as nobody is gonna be persuaded off voting ukip by someone screaming in their face or makjng fun of their appearance.

 

[frogwoman]

The other day i was talking about the issue of babies with three parents to my dad and the fact that trans women may soon be able to have womb transplants to have kids, i don't have a problem with either of these really but he was deeply uncomfortable with it saying that we dont know the risks and that he didn't think any of these things should be messed around with. He's a bit of a small c conservative but he's never been sexist and he's not particularly strident about his views. How would he react to being told his opinions are worthless for being a privileged white cis man and that he is a transphobic misogynist that should kill himself?

 

[el-ahrairah]

Also not being funny but i can't take anyone that uses the term 'whorephobia' remotely seriously. Disliking the sex industry isn't remotely the same as disliking sex workers ffs.

this is something that i've come up against a lot.

you need a class analysis of sex work, and none of those people ever seem to have one. they all think that choice is pure and free.

 

[frogwoman]

this is something that i've come up against a lot.

you need a class analysis of sex work, and none of those people ever seem to have one. they all think that choice is pure and free.

Exactly and their defence of sex work could be applied to any other work. 'Sex work is work!' Yea and whats so great about work anyway?

 

[flypanam]

they all think that choice is pure and free.

It is, if you can afford it.

 

[J Ed]

The other day i was talking about the issue of babies with three parents to my dad and the fact that trans women may soon be able to have womb transplants to have kids, i don't have a problem with either of these really but he was deeply uncomfortable with it saying that we dont know the risks and that he didn't think any of these things should be messed around with. He's a bit of a small c conservative but he's never been sexist and he's not particularly strident about his views. How would he react to being told his opinions are worthless for being a privileged white cis man and that he is a transphobic misogynist that should kill himself?

Depends on whether you are interested in convincing others of your point of view or the building of an 'ethical brand' and the accumulation of subcultural capital within existing peer networks. p.s die cis scum !!! i drink your cis tears!!!!!!

 

[Nigel Irritable]

How would he react to being told his opinions are worthless for being a privileged white cis man and that he is a transphobic misogynist that should kill himself?

I'm hoping this is like a pre-advert teaser question and you'll get back to us in a few minutes with the answer.

 

[frogwoman]

And also in much of the world being 'cis' or even being a 'cis man' isnt even a privilege. Is being perceived to be female and having been born with a vagina a privilege if you are living under ISIS?

 

[frogwoman]

I can just imagine it ...

'Im in Mosul, ISIS just took my wife away because she wasn't wearing the right clothes, im really scared'
'Check your privilege you misogynist, i lap up your cis male tears. Marriage is so outdated and everything, why dont you queer it up'
'But my wife has been kidnapped by isis, can you help'
'How do you know she was kidnapped and she didn't go of her own choice EH EH?'
'Because she's my wife and we both hate ISIS, im worried they'll make her into a slave'
'Omg what monosexual and kink phobic assumptions, why am i even talking to you, why don't you kill yourself'
'Excuse me????'
'Stop tone policing me its really triggering!'
'Fuck off'
'See what i have to deal with?'

 

[killer b]

'tone policing'?

 

[frogwoman]

'tone policing'?

Yeah ...

 

[killer b]

it's just rabbit-hole politics though isn't it? does anyone care what they think?

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah but it's increasingly being used to try to shut people up in the real world. We probably shouldnt devote so much time on here tho to discussing it

 

[killer b]

am I policing your tone?

*steps back*

 

[frogwoman]

Im calling you out for that oppressive post

 

[Hocus Eye.]

It would be ironic for Germaine Greer to be forbidden from speaking at Cambridge University because she used to work there as a Special Lecturer on Shakespeare following publication of a book on the subject by Greer.

 

[Idris2002]

I hear her lectures featured. . . special stuff.

 

[DotCommunist]

I hear her lectures featured. . . special stuff.

I'd love to hear her take on 'Taming of the Shrew'

even as a kid I spotted the wrong there

 

[treelover]

I hate to say it and not defending them, but much of what these inter-sectionalists scream about, may be 'common sense' in thirty years time, I wasn't active in the mid 80's but I have heard of reports of blazing rows in left meetings when someone was called out for using 'chairman'

 

[frogwoman]

I hate to say it and not defending them, but much of what these inter-sectionalists scream about, may be 'common sense' in thirty years time, I wasn't active in the mid 80's but I have heard of reports of blazing rows in left meetings when someone was called out for using 'chairman'

Or the gulf between them and the public will continue to grow and they will carry on in their bubble completely oblivious to the rise of the far right, islamism, etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

this is something that i've come up against a lot.

you need a class analysis of sex work, and none of those people ever seem to have one. they all think that choice is pure and free.

I think that you're dignifying "their" argument through claiming that they think. It's fairly obvious that most of what they do, is presume. They presume to know, rather than actually finding out, and their presumptions always marry up to their pre-existing ideology and social preconceptions.

 

[co-op]

I hate to say it and not defending them, but much of what these inter-sectionalists scream about, may be 'common sense' in thirty years time, I wasn't active in the mid 80's but I have heard of reports of blazing rows in left meetings when someone was called out for using 'chairman'

Lots of isms issues were played out very fiercely in the 80s from my experience but I wouldn't say much of it has become 'commonsense'. Part of the reason the Trans vs RadFem schism is so bitter is because radical feminism is still so marginal that it can be taken out by an even tinier group of mtf trans activists who are probably fewer than 1 in a thousand of the population.

And there are still people who roll their eyes at "chair".

 

[frogwoman]

Lots of isms issues were played out very fiercely in the 80s from my experience but I wouldn't say much of it has become 'commonsense'. Part of the reason the Trans vs RadFem schism is so bitter is because radical feminism is still so marginal that it can be taken out by an even tinier group of mtf trans activists who are probably fewer than 1 in a thousand of the population.

And there are still people who roll their eyes at "chair".

Well im one of those and dont see why its an issue when in most cases the 'chair' is still a man before we even get to the fact of what he/she is being paid compared to other workers and those workers' all too frequent alienation and lack of participation in the type of structures that have 'chairs'

 

[co-op]

Well im one of those and dont see why its an issue when in most cases the 'chair' is still a man before we even get to the fact of what he/she is being paid compared to other workers and those workers' all too frequent alienation and lack of participation in the type of structures that have 'chairs'

Yes, bad example with "chair" - for some reason it just makes me want to snigger because it makes me imagine the chair taking control of the meeting. TBH most of the times when I'm in the presence of a chair, or "chair" the only alienation going on is all of us from normal life as it'll be some titchy little protest group or TRA and we will all want to be somewhere else if we're being honest. I never have work meetings.

 

[frogwoman]

I saw 'the chairperson of the board of governors' on a company website today.

It was a man.