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Urban v's the Commentariat

ViolentPanda said:
How did they benefit? They were able to earn a living mining coal, women weren't. Their death wasn't a "benefit". Their ability to secure a living was and is.
And yeah, you're right, it is because of patriarchy that it was all men, but that doesn't make men relatively as oppressed as women, it simply means that sometimes other social and cultural factors exert influences too.
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Oh get to fuck! Being 'able' to earn a living doing a highly dangerous occupation such as coal-mining in Turkey is a privilege?

You might as well have said a dead prostitute was privileged to have been able to earn a living as long as she did before she was 'killed on the job'.

What a sick attitude.
 
rioted said:
Yeah, and we should still have "mother & toddler" groups 'cos women do most childcare. :rolleyes: Thank fuck we managed to change here to "parent & toddler" to encourage more men. You're stuck in the present - find ways to move forward. I would encourage more people to work part time' you seem to be bigging up full-time wage slavery.
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Seriously?
 
If you can see how capitalism exploits the biology of women in as many ways as it does, but wherever it similarly exploits the biology of men you think it appropriate to resituate that exploitation into being a privilege over women, you are a useful fucking idiot for the enemy.

Dying as a coal miner as male privilege. For fuck's sake. :mad: Fuck off.

DotCommunist said:
argh
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Well go on then?
 
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rioted said:
Yeah, and we should still have "mother & toddler" groups 'cos women do most childcare. :rolleyes: Thank fuck we managed to change here to "parent & toddler" to encourage more men. You're stuck in the present - find ways to move forward. I would encourage more people to work part time' you seem to be bigging up full-time wage slavery.
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I'm not sure its actually possible to avoid being stuck in the present. last time I checked the laws of physics weren't optional.
 
fucking hell ole, I don't know where to start with that. I'd have another read of the posts you're replying to if I were you - some of the views you're attributing to others bear no relation to what they've said.
 
SpineyNorman said:
fucking hell ole, I don't know where to start with that. I'd have another read of the posts you're replying to if I were you - some of the views you're attributing to others bear no relation to what they've said.
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Start wherever you like mate. It's just one post I'm really replying to (ViolentPanda's) and he genuinely argued that dead Turkish miners benefited from sexism by 'having the ability' to earn a living in a non-unionised coal-mining industry, which was so dangerous that 300 of them were killed in one incident with the risk of many more. Read his post again if you think I'm misrepresenting his views.

http://www.urban75.net/forums/goto/post?id=13180843#post-13180843

I think it was out of order what he said and I stand by that. Where's my massive fuck-up then Spiney? What's so unspeakable about what I've said?
 
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Ole said:
Start wherever you like mate. It's just one post I'm really replying to (ViolentPanda's) and he genuinely argued that dead Turkish miners benefited from sexism by 'having the ability' to earn a living in a non-unionised coal-mining industry, which was so dangerous that 300 of them were killed in one incident with the risk of many more. Read his post again if you think I'm misrepresenting his views.

http://www.urban75.net/forums/goto/post?id=13180843#post-13180843

I think it was out of order what he said and I stand by that. Where's my massive fuck-up then Spiney? What's so unspeakable about what I've said?
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That's not what you claimed he said - you claimed he said getting killed in the mines showed they were benefiting from sexism. The actual point was that their role as wage earners gives them economic independence denied to most women in Turkey.

My view of it? At a fairly superficial level men to benefit from sexism, in that all other things being equal we are generally better off than women in this society. But at a more profound level we (as in working class men) lose out because of it, as it is essential for the perpetuation of capitalism and therefore the perpetuation of our exploitation.

Where did I say what you said was unspeakable?
 
SpineyNorman said:
That's not what you claimed he said - you claimed he said getting killed in the mines showed they were benefiting from sexism. The actual point was that their role as wage earners gives them economic independence denied to most women in Turkey.

My view of it? At a fairly superficial level men to benefit from sexism, in that all other things being equal we are generally better off than women in this society. But at a more profound level we (as in working class men) lose out because of it, as it is essential for the perpetuation of capitalism and therefore the perpetuation of our exploitation.

Where did I say what you said was unspeakable?
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Mate that is just false. I never made that claim. You're now just talking bollocks pal. I claimed he said that dead miners benefited from sexism. Which is accurate. That is what he said.
 
Ole said:
Mate that is just false. I never made that claim. You're now just talking bollocks pal. I claimed he said that dead miners benefited from sexism. Which is accurate. That is what he said.
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You certainly implied it by adding this to the end:

You might as well have said a dead prostitute was privileged to have been able to earn a living as long as she did before she was 'killed on the job'.
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It's really quite simple. Working down a mine is shit. But it's less shit than having almost zero control over any aspect of your life. This really didn't ought to be controversial.
 
Out of interest, has anyone knowingly met an MRA? I'm certainly not denying they exist or are a problem - they clearly do and are - it's just I've only ever seen them on the internet and in newspaper articles about fathers 4 justice. Maybe I have met them and they've just been sensible enough to hide their principled stand against misandry from me?
 
I've known a few dads pissed off about the visitation/childcare arrangements but none who turned it into a political movement. More just grumbling and in one case having to get near court before the mum entered into discussion about the issue.

but no torch bearers for the MRA
 
SpineyNorman said:
You certainly implied it by adding this to the end:



It's really quite simple. Working down a mine is shit. But it's less shit than having almost zero control over any aspect of your life. This really didn't ought to be controversial.
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How does that remark of mine imply that I claimed ViolentPanda said getting killed in the mines shows the miners benefited from sexism?


frogwoman said:
Do we have actual MRA's on here now :facepalm:
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Are you levelling that accusation at me?
 
SpineyNorman said:
Out of interest, has anyone knowingly met an MRA? I'm certainly not denying they exist or are a problem - they clearly do and are - it's just I've only ever seen them on the internet and in newspaper articles about fathers 4 justice. Maybe I have met them and they've just been sensible enough to hide their principled stand against misandry from me?
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Yes. About as creepy as you'd expect and the last I heard of him he'd been arrested for hitting his girlfriend.
 
DotCommunist said:
I've known a few dads pissed off about the visitation/childcare arrangements but none who turned it into a political movement. More just grumbling and in one case having to get near court before the mum entered into discussion about the issue.

but no torch bearers for the MRA
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Yeah me too - and in some cases can't really blame them - but I've never met any who thought this was some kind of manifestation of a feminist conspiracy against men or something.
 
rioted said:
LOL

So the benefits they accrued were due to Patriarchy but the penalties weren't? You have a very strange view of what patriarchy is.
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Try not to put words in my mouth, there's a good chap.
And if you can't resist putting words into peoples' mouths, at least try to be original.
 
rioted said:
Yeah, and we should still have "mother & toddler" groups 'cos women do most childcare. :rolleyes: Thank fuck we managed to change here to "parent & toddler" to encourage more men. You're stuck in the present - find ways to move forward. I would encourage more people to work part time' you seem to be bigging up full-time wage slavery.
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Wow, a mansplaination!
 
Ole said:
Oh get to fuck! Being 'able' to earn a living doing a highly dangerous occupation such as coal-mining in Turkey is a privilege?
Click to expand...

Two generations of my father's side of the family worked in the pits east of Rotherham. I'm well aware of how dangerous mining is.
If the social structure is such that only a sector of the population is able to take the opportunity to put food on the family table, then work is, de facto, a "privilege".
Guess what, Nortbert? Privilege is relative.

You might as well have said a dead prostitute was privileged to have been able to earn a living as long as she did before she was 'killed on the job'.

What a sick attitude.
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Only if you're enough of a twat to think that "privilege" means something it doesn't, Einstein.
 
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