Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[JimW]

That’s not refusing to pick a side though it’s just optimism.

Well, more than optimism, really think they are likely probably well placed to absorb the Azov lot into other units and fuck off the really worst ones who I understand have done some pretty criminal shit themselves in the festering Donbas war, and that ultimately it would benefit Ukraine far more than any possible loss of one smallish fighting unit however experienced.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

i think part of it is that people don't like the side they support to be saddled with proper fascists

I know what you mean. It's also true that a lot of lefty types overlook or downplay nasty stuff carried out by the Soviet Union.

Anyway, I was in the pub the other day with some friends, family, acquaintances, locals and visitors. A whole range of political perspectives. A tank division pushed their way past the bouncers (it was a Wetherspoons) and started causing havoc. Everyone fought back, except the kids who were evacuated to the garden.

It was difficult to be sure. But what really pissed me off was the bloke selling Socialist Worker outside. He blamed us for drinking in a Brexit pub. That was a provocation apparently. Oh, and one of the blokes in there had a swastika tattooed on his armpit.

 

[tim]

What about the Russian working class? Conscripts, rank and file soldiers sick of being I'll equipped cannon fodder. workers in factory towns hit by sanctions and hyperinflation.

I wouldn't bet against at least one of those being a significant factor in how this all ends.

Or is that a bit too Rick from the young ones for you too?

More Battleship Potemkin, I think.

 

[bimble]

I just read this Very long twitter thread which says that the Russian army is useless at proper wars because it’s weak not by mistake but by design, to keep it from being a threat to the political order & the state security service.
Really interesting. If anyone here has the time to read it & say if it sounds true or not that would be nice.

 

[cupid_stunt]

State security fears potential rivalry from the army. So they introduced several mechanisms of control. One is to do a cleaning up after each war killing generals who got too influential among the troops. And leaving the less infuential ones. That's a negative selection mechanism

Doesn't look like they will need to do that on this occasion, the Ukrainians seem to be handling that well enough.

 

[zahir]

Interview with the Greek consul in Mariupol. He talks a bit about Azov.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It’s all about brexit really

 

[splonkydoo]

Indeed, and the Azov Battalion only had an estimated 900 members before this current invasion, in a country of over 40 million.

What's your source on numbers?

 

[A380]

It’s all about brexit really

Cunt's got to cunt.

 

[cupid_stunt]

What's your source on numbers?

Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit whose members – estimated at 900 – are ultra-nationalists and accused of harbouring neo-Nazi and white supremacist ideology.

Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?

The regiment, which has been accused of neo-Nazi ties, has since been absorbed in the national army.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Pickman's model]

I know what you mean. It's also true that a lot of lefty types overlook or downplay nasty stuff carried out by the Soviet Union.

Anyway, I was in the pub the other day with some friends, family, acquaintances, locals and visitors. A whole range of political perspectives. A tank division pushed their way past the bouncers (it was a Wetherspoons) and started causing havoc. Everyone fought back, except the kids who were evacuated to the garden.

It was difficult to be sure. But what really pissed me off was the bloke selling Socialist Worker outside. He blamed us for drinking in a Brexit pub. That was a provocation apparently. Oh, and one of the blokes in there had a swastika tattooed on his armpit.

On the USSR point, I think for a lot of tankies the Russian Federation is a successor state for their sympathies to the rsfsr

 

[A380]

On the USSR point, I think for a lot of tankies the Russian Federation is a successor state for their sympathies to the rsfsr

Definitely this. As I've mentioned before my parents were both full time employee Euro-communists ('Trendies') back in the day. Loads of remaining Tankies from then still had/have a bit of a thing for Russia (and the CIS )...

My parents and their political friends from then have a working theory that a lot of the faults and failures of the USSR were more issues with Russia than the Party, and you can certainly see commonalities between the operation and failures of the 19th century Tsars, USSR and Putin...

(After all, there is a lot of, admittedly not much more than anecdote, evidence that Marx warned against revolution in Russia and his belief was that the revolution "should" come in England or Germany...)

 

[A380]

I just read this Very long twitter thread which says that the Russian army is useless at proper wars because it’s weak not by mistake but by design, to keep it from being a threat to the political order & the state security service.
Really interesting. If anyone here has the time to read it & say if it sounds true or not that would be nice.

The chap in uniform at about six or seven (marines?) was a proper officer, remembering the 'boys' dying and being shouted down by the slick presenter, or politician, pushing the 'glory of the state' line. Brave. As you say, probably not got a rosy future.

 

[Gramsci]

I would like to apologise to Gramsci for this. I was out if order.

For various reasons this has been fucking with my head particularly badly the last few days. I've not even been able to sleep. Just laid there crying one night.

I let it get to me last night and massively overreacted.

At least I had the sense to put them on ignore and step away from the thread for a bit.

Really appreciate you posting this.

Thanks. No hard feelings.

 

[SpineyNorman]

More Battleship Potemkin, I think.

Wasn't he president of the SU at SOAS when he made that fillum?

 

[Aladdin]

Not sure if this has been referred to yet?

Russia claiming it has used supersonic missile ..

Russia says it used a hypersonic missile in Ukraine for first time: report

The Kinzhal hypersonic missile is designed to launch from MiG fighter jets.

www.space.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not sure if this has been referred to yet?

Russia claiming it has used supersonic missile ..

Russia says it used a hypersonic missile in Ukraine for first time: report

The Kinzhal hypersonic missile is designed to launch from MiG fighter jets.

www.space.com

Not supersonic, but hypersonic, much faster, and assuming the reports are correct, thank fuck it had a conventional warhead, because apparently they can carry nuclear ones.

 

[existentialist]

Not supersonic, but hypersonic, much faster, and assuming the reports are correct, thank fuck it had a conventional warhead, because apparently they can carry nuclear ones.

They were MADE to carry nuclear warheads. This use of this missile is a way of Putin saying "Look at this shit I got". The message is pretty unmistakeable.

ETA: IMO, etc., usual disclaimers apply.

 

[MickiQ]

Yeah well call me cynical but these are the people claiming their police operation to rid Ukraine of Nazi's is going well. Assuming that the story isn't completely made up and based on how the rest of their hardware has performed, I can well imagine that they have fired off their single prototype only to watch it crash into the nearest warehouse of "Everything for under a Hrynvia"

 

[existentialist]

Yeah well call me cynical but these are the people claiming their police operation to rid Ukraine of Nazi's is going well. Assuming that the story isn't completely made up and based on how the rest of their hardware has performed, I can well imagine that they have fired off their single prototype only to watch it crash into the nearest warehouse of "Everything for under a Hrynvia"

Well, yes, there is that. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

[Cid]

Not supersonic, but hypersonic, much faster, and assuming the reports are correct, thank fuck it had a conventional warhead, because apparently they can carry nuclear ones.

Been confirmed by US sources to CNN. US was able to track them.

US officials confirm Russia has used hypersonic missiles against Ukraine

Ukrainian President Zelensky tells Russia "it is time to meet" as the US defense secretary says Russia has used "brutal, savage techniques'' in the way it has targeted civilians. Follow here for live news updates.

edition.cnn.com

 

[2hats]

Not sure if this has been referred to yet?

Russia claiming it has used supersonic missile ..

Russia says it used a hypersonic missile in Ukraine for first time: report

The Kinzhal hypersonic missile is designed to launch from MiG fighter jets.

www.space.com

Pretty much all rocket propelled ballistic missiles, and glide vehicles have a hypersonic phase, as does the aeroballistic missile reportedly used here.

 

[Pickman's model]

Pretty much all rocket propelled ballistic missiles, and glide vehicles have a hypersonic phase, as does the aeroballistic missile reportedly used here.

Sounds flash tho

 

[Crispy]

Yeah this thing is just a normal ballistic missile, just launched from a plane instead of the ground. That's why the US tracked it so easily.

The really tricky thing to do is sustained hypersonic flight at low altitude. That would mean a missile/plane so fast that by the time you detect it and launch a defense, it's already over the horizon. Nobody has managed to pull this off in a production design.

 

[a_chap]

Hypersonic missiles?

Have they run out of cruise missiles then?

 

[Cid]

RIA novosti is sounding off about chemical weapons again, not good.

Spoiler: Russian propaganda

https://ria.ru/20220319/provokatsii-1779069170.html

 

[Dogsauce]

Hypersonic missiles?

Have they run out of cruise missiles then?

That has actually been suggested. Over a thousand fired off so far, some have been intercepted by air defences.

 

[Aladdin]

Yeah this thing is just a normal ballistic missile, just launched from a plane instead of the ground. That's why the US tracked it so easily.

This is the description of the missile used
It does not seem to be anything used previously and it does not seem to be a normal ballistic missile.

Kyiv vows to ‘hit back harder’ if Putin attacks Kakhovka dam - LIVE

Moscow has resorted to the plot because “nuclear blackmail did not work”, the office of President Zelensky claims

www.independent.co.uk

What is a Kinzhal missile? The hypersonic weapon Russia says it used for the first time in Ukraine​

Russia’s military has claimed to have fired a hypersonic ballistic missile to destroy a large weapons depot in Ukraine (Zaina Alibhai writes).
Hypersonic missiles are thought to be the next generation of arms as they can travel at exceptionally high speeds, more than five times the speed of sound.
Until recently, hypersonic missiles have remained a closely guarded secret however President Vladimir Putin has made no secret of Russia’s investment in the weapons which he insists were only created in response to the US deployment of a strategic missile defence system.
The Kinzhal missiles are part of an array of “invincible” weapons unveiled by Russia four years ago, alongside Zirkon and Avangrad, which has both higher speed and range.
Carried by MiG-31K fighter jets, it can fly at 10 times the speed of sound - 7,672 mph - and can hit a target some 1,250 miles away.
For comparison, the US Tomahawk cruise missile - a subsonic long range missile system - can travel at around 550 mph.

Kinzhal missile? The hypersonic weapon Russia used for ‘the first time’ in Ukraine​

Russia claims to have destroyed a bunker storing missiles and ammunition

 

[bimble]

What the hell is going on

 

[zahir]

The fate of conscripts from Donbas.

Russia throws untrained civilians from occupied Donbas into hot spots of its war in Ukraine

Editor’s Note: The Kyiv Independent isn’t revealing last names of the people from the Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine interviewed for this story for safety reasons. Nearly every man that Oleksii, a 24-year-old resident of Russian-occupied Khrestivka in Donetsk Oblast, knows – friends, school...

kyivindependent.com

Men in the comments were asking if there was any way to avoid mobilization or leave the occupied parts of Donbas. The group members agreed that the chances are low. The Kyiv Independent reached one of the men who hadn’t left his house for two weeks, hiding from Russian-controlled forces. Ivan, a 25-year-old miner, said in a voice message that militants stop men everywhere, simply on their way to grocery stores, and ask for an ID. If a man doesn’t have an ID, militants take him to a “police station” for identification and, after that, send him directly to a mobilization point. “They (militants) walk around, knock on all the apartments’ doors, looking for men,” Ivan said. They send conscripts to what they assure is a 3-7-day military exercise but when they arrive they are deployed to fight Ukraine, according to Ivan.