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UK Votes to Leave EU

there weren't any facts because nobody knew for sure what brexit would actually mean, and those campaigning for it abused that to make out that we could have everything that all leave campaigners wanted all at the same time.

At the point where this has been negotiated and there is a firm proposal on the table there would be facts that should be put to the british people to consider assuming that they're materially different to the bullshit version that the leave campaign just campaigned on.

Cameron went around Europe initially demanding, then resorted to asking and in the final round it sounded like pleading, in the end they gave him a few crumbs that would have easily been rescinded by the first challenge to the ECJ.
We are in uncharted territory, fair enough, but the course of the EU and the euro is essentially sailing over the edge, we might eventually be seen as a sheet anchor, but time will tell.
 
What should happen t make the EU look good to people getting screwed by it until they agree with you?

Persuade Norway to become full members and introduce their social policies. Concentrate on raising GDP per capita to Swiss levels, about double ours, so people feel rich enough to reject a basic universal salary that is higher than our minimum wage. Concentrate on workers rights and social housing provision. No national government is ever going to look further than the next election but they may do in Brussels and that is why I would rather stay in the EU.

Right now we are fucked as we will have a very right wing government free to do what they please. If we had remained part of the EU at least we would have been saved from TTIP by France. Now we are probably looking at slowly becoming part of America and will be paying 16% of GDP for our healthcare.
 
Persuade Norway to become full members and introduce their social policies. Concentrate on raising GDP per capita to Swiss levels, about double ours, so people feel rich enough to reject a basic universal salary that is higher than our minimum wage. Concentrate on workers rights and social housing provision. No national government is ever going to look further than the next election but they may do in Brussels and that is why I would rather stay in the EU.

Right now we are fucked as we will have a very right wing government free to do what they please. If we had remained part of the EU at least we would have been saved from TTIP by France. Now we are probably looking at slowly becoming part of America and will be paying 16% of GDP for our healthcare.
Just be richer and do good stuff. Double GDP. Thanks.

Moving on...
 
I don't know. I Didn't create this mess. The same old same old. Join a union, talk to your neighbours, stand up for things Or I could have just voted for remain. And then put my feet up.

This is a serious reply. I need to do more, to do something.

I didn't create this mess either. See my above reply to butchersapron. I think it means look around at realistic and proven ways to make things better and maybe do them or to summarise Get rich and do good stuff, though I think s/he was insulting me rather than providing a neat summary.
 
Just be richer and do good stuff. Double GDP. Thanks.

Moving on...

Yes, I will be moving on. Swiss GDP is about double ours and they offered a basic income of £1700 per month plus I think about £300 per child recently. Not sure what is wrong with wondering how they managed to get the money to do that.

Why is it that my wishes to remain were overridden by you yet I am happy, while you seem aggressive and unhappy. Oh well.
 
He's caught withering negativity off the zeitgeist. :(

It seems so. Mind you I would be pretty negative if I had just potentially given BJ the keys to the country, ripped out the ABS and sold the air bags to Trump.

Anyway, I am sleeping before brexit claims another nights sleep.
 
Yes, I will be moving on. Swiss GDP is about double ours and they offered a basic income of £1700 per month plus I think about £300 per child recently. Not sure what is wrong with wondering how they managed to get the money to do that.

Why is it that my wishes to remain were overridden by you yet I am happy, while you seem aggressive and unhappy. Oh well.
Where did you wonder that then? All I saw was offering it as a next move.
 
This piece is excellent - explains the left leave position better than anything else I've read, as well as why the working class have voted so overwhelmingly to go. “I want to stop something exploitative, divisive and dishonest” — conversation with a Leaver
Yes, he gets it. Alomost totally.

Tere is still a strong streak of paternalism in it - the w/c have lost their articulate m/c speaking for them since the since the miners strike for example - the w/c has never had problems being articulate. It has had problems in developing institutions through which those articulate voices can be adequately expressed. Either through direct attack or m/c do-gooding dominance.
 
the w/c have lost their articulate m/c speaking for them since the since the miners strike for example - the w/c has never had problems being articulate. It has had problems in developing institutions through which those articulate voices can be adequately expressed. Either through direct attack or m/c do-gooding dominance.
Yes, that's true. thanks.
 
Banks have just hoovered up £3bn of liquidity from BoE.

Do we need a 'post-Brexit recession' watch thread?
 
Nutral facts. Like gravity. But we need some more economists. With the cold hard facts that they all agree on.[/QUOTE
Economists in this situation is at best making informed guesses as to what happens next.
 
Yes, I will be moving on. Swiss GDP is about double ours and they offered a basic income of £1700 per month plus I think about £300 per child recently. Not sure what is wrong with wondering how they managed to get the money to do that.

Why is it that my wishes to remain were overridden by you yet I am happy, while you seem aggressive and unhappy. Oh well.

Nazi gold.
 
This piece is excellent - explains the left leave position better than anything else I've read, as well as why the working class have voted so overwhelmingly to go. “I want to stop something exploitative, divisive and dishonest” — conversation with a Leaver

I just read this and I can see why the guy insists his dad is not racist, he is just xenophobic and better than the working class he claims to have some social worker type interest in.

To claim that the natural outcome of a group of people feeling disenfranchised is to run into the arms of the far right is nonsense. If you feel you are not represented you can choose how to respond. There is no excuse for racism. It is not a cry for help. Apologists for racist behaviour are only one thing. The guy actually described himself when he talked about deep seated bigots.

Then he goes on to claim that the working class can not understand or articulate what this is all about. There may be an issue with differences in the restrictive and elaborative language people use but that exists because the groups that use the different types of communication don't mix. This is self inflicted by both groups. If working class people don't understand it is because things are placed within terms of reference they are not familiar with. The writer provides a fine example of this type of pointlessly pretentious, self aggrandising, nonsense himself . "Leaving aside that this person has obviously never been to the wastelands of the Paris banlieue, that says it all, really " Can you honestly claim to have any affinity with someone who would write that.

He also manages to get across really clearly what a thoughtless nationalistic hypocrite, with no sense of responsibility to those he claims have solidarity with, he is. The guy almost boasts about how he studied in and worked all over Europe, how he is doing really well and that his wife in from outside the EU, yet he is anti immigration. Why is he not concerned with the prospects of people from other countries. Personally I find it quite uplifting, and feel proud of my country when I meet people who have come here and made their lives better. He even has the balls, and this really illustrates what a self important smug I'm alright jack c##t he is when he admits he doesn't know if leaving the EU will work, and offers no suggestions as to what could be done. He has got to be an MP if he can advocate that level of careless experimentation with people's lives, while he will be OK himself and no doubt has properties to pass on to his kids so they will remain near the top of the social pile.

Is this really what you agree with.

Now we will probably have Jeremy Hunt running against BJ, to ensure BJ wins. No viable opposition and are out of the EU which was the only thing protecting us from becoming the 51st state.
 
I just read this and I can see why the guy insists his dad is not racist, he is just xenophobic and better than the working class he claims to have some social worker type interest in.

To claim that the natural outcome of a group of people feeling disenfranchised is to run into the arms of the far right is nonsense. If you feel you are not represented you can choose how to respond. There is no excuse for racism. It is not a cry for help. Apologists for racist behaviour are only one thing. The guy actually described himself when he talked about deep seated bigots.

Then he goes on to claim that the working class can not understand or articulate what this is all about. There may be an issue with differences in the restrictive and elaborative language people use but that exists because the groups that use the different types of communication don't mix. This is self inflicted by both groups. If working class people don't understand it is because things are placed within terms of reference they are not familiar with. The writer provides a fine example of this type of pointlessly pretentious, self aggrandising, nonsense himself . "Leaving aside that this person has obviously never been to the wastelands of the Paris banlieue, that says it all, really " Can you honestly claim to have any affinity with someone who would write that.

He also manages to get across really clearly what a thoughtless nationalistic hypocrite, with no sense of responsibility to those he claims have solidarity with, he is. The guy almost boasts about how he studied in and worked all over Europe, how he is doing really well and that his wife in from outside the EU, yet he is anti immigration. Why is he not concerned with the prospects of people from other countries. Personally I find it quite uplifting, and feel proud of my country when I meet people who have come here and made their lives better. He even has the balls, and this really illustrates what a self important smug I'm alright jack c##t he is when he admits he doesn't know if leaving the EU will work, and offers no suggestions as to what could be done. He has got to be an MP if he can advocate that level of careless experimentation with people's lives, while he will be OK himself and no doubt has properties to pass on to his kids so they will remain near the top of the social pile.

Is this really what you agree with.

Now we will probably have Jeremy Hunt running against BJ, to ensure BJ wins. No viable opposition and are out of the EU which was the only thing protecting us from becoming the 51st state.
Bit of bernstein 70s style socio-linguistics and yet she thinks touching people is the sign of a true european.
 
Persuade Norway to become full members and introduce their social policies.
Are you in the PLP that you think the only issue is in "persuading"? Norway has had referendums, they see the EU, they had plenty of "we'll become isolated and irrelevant and lose billions campaign messages" and they still don't want to join. Leave them alone.
 
Are you in the PLP that you think the only issue is in "persuading"? Norway has had referendums, they see the EU, they had plenty of "we'll become isolated and irrelevant and lose billions campaign messages" and they still don't want to join. Leave them alone.

No, I was at a wedding in Spain with about 200 Norwegians last month. They have no interest in the EU as far as I can tell. I just like the way their government looks after people.
 
Bit of bernstein 70s style socio-linguistics and yet she thinks touching people is the sign of a true european.

What a well reasoned reply. I guess because what I wrote was personal opinion and not based on a book you have no pre- programed response other than the linguistics bit. I can't work out if you have been touched too much or too little.
 
What a well reasoned reply. I guess because what I wrote was personal opinion and not based on a book you have no pre- programed response other than the linguistics bit. I can't work out if you have been touched too much or too little.
Right - you just happened to base your reply on Bernsteins book Language and Social Class and use the jargon from it by accident - not due to none of that old book learnin'.
 
Bit of bernstein 70s style socio-linguistics and yet she thinks touching people is the sign of a true european.

Why do you think I am female. Is it because you don't like me, are misogynistic, and therefore assume I am female. It is quite telling.
 
Why do you think I am female. Is it because you don't like me, are misogynistic, and therefore assume I am female. It is quite telling.
Because i thought that you said that you were. If you're not - great! Terrible way to avoid my post and you getting a bit caught out.
 
To claim that the natural outcome of a group of people feeling disenfranchised is to run into the arms of the far right is nonsense. If you feel you are not represented you can choose how to respond. There is no excuse for racism. It is not a cry for help. Apologists for racist behaviour are only one thing. The guy actually described himself when he talked about deep seated bigots.
Choice huh. I wonder why so many people chose this route? Perhaps it was because they didn't feel they had any choices?

If you chalk so many people's choice up to bigotry and racism, where does that leave them left to go? Or you, for that matter?
 
Because i thought that you said that you were. If you're not - great! Terrible way to avoid my post and you getting a bit caught out.

I never mentioned my gender and there is no reason for me to have, so no reason for you to think that. I don't have a degree, have never studied sociology, psychology or any similar subject. You clearly have yet it has not helped you quell your racist and sexist feelings. I am sorry.
 
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