Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

[The Gnome]

This seems to sum it up well.

Yes, I do understand it. But who determines whether a speech is abusive and hateful. Is it not subject to determination and judgement?

A dissenting view is just that -- dissenting -- but if you judge my dissenting views as hateful or abusive then don't I have the right to disprove that?

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

It looks like they don't allow dissent here.

Have you read Urban 75?

 

[LDC]

Yes, I do understand it. But who determines whether a speech is abusive and hateful. Is it not subject to determination and judgement?

A dissenting view is just that -- dissenting -- but if you judge my dissenting views as hateful or abusive then don't I have the right to disprove that?

This is so fucking dull. It's the argument level of a stoned sixth form teenager.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

transgenderism

made up word

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

How so?

Chronologically challenged?

 

[kittyP]

I think a big part of the problem is that people see it as "politics", a debate to be had about and over the heads of real human beings who want to live their lives without fear and with respect.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Yes, I do understand it. But who determines whether a speech is abusive and hateful. Is it not subject to determination and judgement?

A dissenting view is just that -- dissenting -- but if you judge my dissenting views as hateful or abusive then don't I have the right to disprove that?

i can't wait to hear why you think what you have to say isn't based on hate?

 

[The Gnome]

Ah, if it wasn't for those pesky 'extreme leftists'.

I'm an extreme leftist, although I prefer ultra-left as it sounds way cooler.

You're not hear to really discuss things with good intention, you've just got some half-baked mess of ideas you can't even articulate properly coating a nasty core of what I bet is right wing politics.

I'm here to contribute my dissenting views -- which you and like minded posters seem unable to handle as a point of discussion judging by the replies that I've been getting. I was expecting counter arguments and rebuttals but I guess I have to deal with trolls and personal insults for the time being.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Yes, I do understand it. But who determines whether a speech is abusive and hateful. Is it not subject to determination and judgement?

A dissenting view is just that -- dissenting -- but if you judge my dissenting views as hateful or abusive then don't I have the right to disprove that?

How the fuck can you disprove that a dissenting view causes someone hurt and distress?

 

[The Gnome]

i can't wait to hear why you think what you have to say isn't based on hate?

^ A great example of hate.

 

[LDC]

I'm here to contribute my dissenting views -- which you and like minded posters seem unable to handle as a point of discussion judging by the replies that I've been getting. I was expecting counter arguments and rebuttals but I guess I have to deal with trolls and personal insults for the time being.

Rebuttals or counter argument to what? You haven't really made a decent point or argument that's a starting point for a worthwhile debate. Just something vague about 'cancel culture' and 'dissenting views' not being tolerated.

And this board (and plenty of other places) have had massive far ranging discussions on this and many other topics.

If you're not getting that now then realise it is in part that you're about the eleventy millionth poster who turns up and in their first few posts says pretty much exactly the same as you have, which very quickly degenerates into outright transphobia, plus usually with an accompanying dose of conspiracy theory and racism.

 

[LDC]

What do you have to say on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the following war The Gnome?

Are you more of a NWBTCW type, someone that acknowledges the horrible necessity of supporting the Ukrainian resistance, a full-on cheerleader for NATO/NAFO, or something else?

Once we've covered that we can swiftly move onto vaccines and Covid, then Brexit after teatime.

 

[The Gnome]

Yeah, live and let live. The trouble is, most trans activists themselves seem to be incapable of following that very same adage.

Most trans activists emphatically demand and expect tolerance for and acceptance of their own trans gender beliefs and advocacy, but seem to be incapable of giving contrary views the same virtue of tolerance and acceptance. They tell others what to think, but can't seem to hack it when others push back and say No.

Rebuttals or counter argument to what? You haven't really made a decent point or argument that's a starting point for a worthwhile debate. Just something vague about 'cancel culture' and 'dissenting views' not being tolerated.

And this board (and plenty of other places) have had massive far ranging discussions on this and many other topics.

If you're not getting that now then realise it is in part that you're about the eleventy millionth poster who turns up and in their first few posts says pretty much exactly the same as you have, which very quickly degenerates into outright transphobia, plus usually with an accompanying dose of conspiracy theory and racism.

Fine. There above ^. You want to rebut what I said or are you just going dismiss it?

 

[LDC]

Well, from that to summarise your killer arguments seem to be:

1) Most 'trans-activists' seem incapable of following the 'live and let live' adage.
2) Most 'trans-activists' emphatically demand and expect tolerance ... but are incapable of giving contrary views the same tolerance and acceptance.
3) Most 'trans-activists' tell others what to think, but can't seem to hack it when others push back and say no.

Like I said, a stoned sixth former, you can't even construct a decent argument, it's internet fueled nonsense that doesn't hold up to the flimsiest of inspection.

 

[SpineyNorman]

A man who is not sexually attracted to a trans woman is transphobic!

That's weird. Two of my closest friends are trans women. I don't fancy either of them and I've never been accused of ttansphobia (I don't think either fancy me - they've got better taste than that)

 

[CNT36]

Biological truth does matter but biological truth is not on the side of transphobes.

Does biological truth matter though in regard to trans. People should be able to live as they were born, socialised or choose regardless of an appeal to nature. Does it really matter or is it just a reaction to right wing bullshit?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Biological truth does matter but biological truth is not on the side of transphobes.

And yet it's the transphobes who are always invoking biological truth to back up their nonsense. Most pro-trans arguments are rooted in social and ethical factors, not (imaginary) biological absolutes.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I am not incensed about this at all. Yes, I am matter of factly but it is the passion that supporters of trans gender politics on the forum that you should be noting; not my responses to them. Don't you think?

I don't know what to think, because this post is gibberish.

 

[smokedout]

There's no need to check other people's genitalia. Please don't project your perverted ideas onto me.

The truth of the matter is that biology is non debatable. Male is male; female is female. There's nothing in between the two -- except if you are intersex. Sex does not sit on a spectrum.

The only debatable issue here is up to what extent will you and like minded people deny bilogocial truth.

But biology can be changed, the entire science of medicine depends on that. Whether biology can be changed enough to place someone in a new category, as in the case of a fully medically transitioned trans person, is actually a matter of opinion and therefore is debatable.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The truth of the matter is that biology is non debatable. Male is male; female is female. There's nothing in between the two -- except if you are intersex. Sex does not sit on a spectrum.

You're arguing against a point nobody has made, while also acknowledging that the point you're making is wrong anyway.

Does that really feel like a good use of your time?

 

[SpineyNorman]

There's no need to check other people's genitalia. Please don't project your perverted ideas onto me.

The truth of the matter is that biology is non debatable. Male is male; female is female. There's nothing in between the two -- except if you are intersex. Sex does not sit on a spectrum.

The only debatable issue here is up to what extent will you and like minded people deny bilogocial truth.

So you're just completely erasing people who are born intersex from the picture then.

 

[NoXion]

Well, yeah. But you completely ignore the strong correlation between sex and gender and that transgenderism is more the exception than the rule

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying it's irrelevant. Homosexual behaviour is also the exception rather than the rule. That doesn't justifying trying to erase it either.

As to gender being a social construct; what you're saying completely excludes the fact that binary gender identity is THE social construct that operates on the entire planet, in the whole wide world. It is a social construct that transcends race, culture, society, governments, and other constructs.

Again, so what? You're basically making an Appeal to Nature fallacy here. That a social phenomenon naturally happens does not in itself justify enforcing it to the detriment of the individuals who don't fit in. Appealing to tradition is also a fallacy.

Your argument fails because it does not or can not consider that no matter how you politicise the issue, gender dysphoria does not and can never make a biological man a woman. It only makes that biological man a trans gender woman. And there's nothing wrong with being a trans gender person.

So what if being trans doesn't make you cis? Nobody claims that it does. So what's your point?

I don't know why trans activistists and trans people themselves insist that they should be considered and treated as the gender with which they indentify. In this day and age, what is wrong with being trans gender to the point where they require people to recognise, accept, treat transgenders as people of the sex which they identity.

Trans people want to be accepted for who they are. Dehumanising them by referring to them as "transgenders" and insisting that they are like that because of "ideology" is an attempt to deny the existence of trans people.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Sometimes I wish cancel culture really did exist.

I have to say I preferred it in the old days when being censored meant you had to stfu. These days it means washed up actors I'd never heard of before suddenly being on the telly all the time telling us what it is he can't say any more.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I kind of feel that it is heading that way. It looks like they don't allow dissent here. But, what heck, if I get banned for swimming against the trans activist tide; then so be it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I don't have a problem with trans genders per se. My childhood friend in New Jersey is a trans woman who has this habit of asking me to escort "her" to high school reunion dinner dance parties!

I do have a problem with people denying truth, though.

My imaginary friends are more interesting than yours.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yes, I do understand it. But who determines whether a speech is abusive and hateful. Is it not subject to determination and judgement?

A dissenting view is just that -- dissenting -- but if you judge my dissenting views as hateful or abusive then don't I have the right to disprove that?

Editor does because it's his website you fucking shaft.

 

[Dom Traynor]

Why aren't you all putting this tedious dinlow on ignore?

 

[The Gnome]

But biology can be changed, the entire science of medicine depends on that. Whether biology can be changed enough to place someone in a new category, as in the case of a fully medically transitioned trans person, is actually a matter of opinion and therefore is debatable.

Medical science is the study of human biology. It can not change the biology of a human. It can help alter a person's physical characteristics but the biology of such a person will remain the same forever. Surgically turning a transgender woman's P to a V does not alter the biological makeup of that trans woman.

Human biology is immutable. It is rigid. It is fixed. There is no debating the male chromosomal structure or the female reproductive organs or the hormonal make up of a man or a woman. It would be like debating that the earth is not round.

In the real world, if you were a doctor and an "intact" trans woman showed up at your practice complaining of bleeding and declared that she might be having a miscarriage -- would you, as a medical science practitioner, actually spend time trying to find her non existent uterus or would your instead check her kidneys and bladder for stones?

Categorising whether or not fully medically transitioned transgenders is not a biological but a social construct. That's why it is debatable.

 

[The Gnome]

Editor does because it's his website you fucking shaft.

You don't think I get that?

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Does biological truth matter though in regard to trans. People should be able to live as they were born, socialised or choose regardless of an appeal to nature. Does it really matter or is it just a reaction to right wing bullshit?

it does when trying to get the medical help we need, and also it matters when it comes to designing and providing that heath care. It needs to be appropriate and for that you need factual and correct information. Transitioning works because it is the correct response to gender dysphoria - for most people.