Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[weltweit]

.. Amber Rudd and the Tory woman for leave are both rubbish, aren't they?

They don't seem very incisive no ..

 

[weltweit]

Don't worry, Jeremy is making his devastating intervention 3 days before the vote (on Sky).

Not being a Sky subscriber that will be invisible for me ..

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Not being a Sky subscriber that will be invisible for me ..

Sky News I think, so freeview etc.

 

[weltweit]

Sky News I think, so freeview etc.

I have freesat - pretty sure I don't get it ..

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I have freesat - pretty sure I don't get it ..

Free online then

 

[newbie]

I can't muster any more on this debate/thread for now,

oops, sorry to have been the final straw

Come back stronger when you're ready, I don't suppose I'm the only one to really value your contributions.

 

[belboid]

A question about shit use of sound bites!can they avoid using their key ones?

 

[hipipol]

Found me themetune""""

 

[weltweit]

A question about shit use of sound bites!can they avoid using their key ones?

I thought the closing statements were well presented ...

 

[agricola]

If Cameron survives to 2020, I don't see how it can possibly be Johnson. He's not even in government, and isn't likely to be any time soon, assuming a remain vote.

I am not sure that being out of this Government is necessarily that bad a thing, though. We are probably going to see a recession within two years, made worse by Osborne's complete failure to fix any of the problems that caused the last one. If Remain wins, and the problems of the EU continue to get worse, whoever is associated with that campaign is going to be held to account for it electorally. Boris meanwhile will be able to say "Well, none of it is anything to do with me", and then clown around a bit whilst his friends in the media paint him as the salvation of the Tory Party.

 

[coley]

IWMCB has to be a statement that *you are a little Englander!*

I don't "want my country back", I am comfortable that "my country" (is it really theirs in the first place?) is cooperating and collaborating with its neighbours and less likely as a result to get into catastrophic conflicts of all sorts of kinds ..

I like collaborating with neighbouring countries and think we should be doing more of it not less!

We can collaborate and and cooperate with our neighbouring countries quite easily without them having the authority to dictate to us on policies specific to our particular interests, common market, aye no bother, United States of Europe? Not at this time, thank you.

 

[coley]

From the link you provided “There cannot be an agreement without France and much less against France.” That seems clear.

I accept that if 27 of 28 countries are strongly in favour it will take formidable politicians to resist. That majority is not a foregone conclusion and anyway history shows that standing against the majority is not impossible, Thatcher got concessions at Maastricht, the French blew up the EU Constitution, the Irish could have destroyed the Lisbon treaty.

What is this 'EU' that piles on the pressure?

Until,the Irish got the threat and had a second referendum and then did what they where instructed.

 

[coley]

Osborne has fucked it.

Thankfully.

 

[laptop]

without them having the authority to dictate to us ...

Don't remember you being a daft Little Englander.

"We" *are* one of "them".

 

[newbie]

Until,the Irish got the threat and had a second referendum and then did what they where instructed.

that's one way of putting it. It's pretty lazy though, makes the people of Ireland sound like lapdogs. Another might be "EU summit gives in to Irish demands on Lisbon Treaty". Whether or not you think what the Irish government negotiated was worthwhile, the people who voted obviously did.

 

[weltweit]

We can collaborate and and cooperate with our neighbouring countries quite easily without them having the authority to dictate to us on policies specific to our particular interests, common market, aye no bother, United States of Europe? Not at this time, thank you.

I think it quite likely the Eurozone countries will move towards a united states of Europe, and if that is their desire so be it, but the UK's position outside the Eurozone means we will remain out of it - which I think is also what we want.

 

[newbie]

We can collaborate and and cooperate with our neighbouring countries quite easily without them having the authority to dictate to us on policies specific to our particular interests, common market, aye no bother, United States of Europe? Not at this time, thank you.

It's a common urban debating technique I'm not particularly fond of, but sometimes I think it's pertinent. Who is "We", who is "us"?

 

[brogdale]

1h ago08:51

Cameron says Brexit could put future of HS2 in jeopardy

And this is, somehow, a 'remain' argument?

 

[weltweit]

I am wondering what people's actual personal experiences of EU migrants are? Because my experiences have been wholly positive - but I am aware I may be "sheltered" somehow.

I know quite a few British people living and working in France, Spain and Germany and they enjoy the ability to live there. I also know a lot of EU migrants living and working in the UK and they seem wholly harmless, paying their taxes bringing up their families and contributing here.

What are your personal experiences of EU migrants?

 

[J Ed]

I am wondering what people's actual personal experiences of EU migrants are? Because my experiences have been wholly positive - but I am aware I may be "sheltered" somehow.

I know quite a few British people living and working in France, Spain and Germany and they enjoy the ability to live there. I also know a lot of EU migrants living and working in the UK and they seem wholly harmless, paying their taxes bringing up their families and contributing here.

What are your personal experiences of EU migrants?

I think that they are irrelevant to the debate. If we leave there aren't going to be mass deportations of EU and EEA immigrants in Britain or British citizens from EU and EEA member states.

 

[weltweit]

Perhaps I should start a new thread on personal experiences of EU migration?

 

[weltweit]

I think that they are irrelevant to the debate. If we leave there aren't going to be mass deportations of EU and EEA immigrants in Britain or British citizens from EU and EEA member states.

But EU immigration, and the fear of it, seems to have become a central plank of this referendum so a vote leave, if we also leave the single market, is likely to usher in a change as to how it is permitted in future.

 

[J Ed]

But EU immigration, and the fear of it, seems to have become a central plank of this referendum so a vote leave, if we also leave the single market, is likely to usher in a change as to how it is permitted in future.

Yes, both sides have used immigration in order to ratchet up fear of supporting the other side. There is no way that our immigration policy towards EU and EEA states will change significantly, if it did then capitalism would grind to a halt.

 

[weltweit]

Yes, both sides have used immigration in order to ratchet up fear of supporting the other side. There is no way that our immigration policy towards EU and EEA states will change significantly, if it did then capitalism would grind to a halt.

I don't follow your argument, the whole line of leave campaigners is that the only way to limit inward EU migration is to leave the EU. And while many leave campaigners want a points system for EU migrants all want to drive down the numbers coming from EU countries. How will that affect capitalism?

 

[gosub]

I don't follow your argument, the whole line of leave campaigners is that the only way to limit inward EU migration is to leave the EU. And while many leave campaigners want a points system for EU migrants all want to drive down the numbers coming from EU countries. How will that affect capitalism?

Its like dealing with a stuck record.

JIT supply chains don't work so well when you have to add in bonded warehouses.

 

[weltweit]

JIT supply chains don't work so well when you have to add in bonded warehouses.

Capitalism existed long before the single market.

 

[gosub]

Capitalism existed long before the single market.

So did steam engines, doesn't mean the railways have large coal dumps everywhere these days

 

[Pickman's model]

So did steam engines, doesn't mean the railways have large coal dumps everywhere these days

they didn't have large coal dumps everywhere even during the halcyon days of steam

 

[gosub]

they didn't have large coal dumps everywhere even during the halcyon days of steam

There were a lot more of them about than there are these days.

 

[weltweit]

So did steam engines, doesn't mean the railways have large coal dumps everywhere these days

I think leaving the single market would be a mistake, a big mistake, but a lot of people in the UK, as evidenced by questions at debates, think unfettered EU migration is a very bad thing.