ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Who is the 'we' in this post? Who are we bargaining against and for what are we bargaining?
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
Who is the 'we' in this post? Who are we bargaining against and for what are we bargaining?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Anyone not already in power/government circles
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
How will anyone "not already in power/government circles" bargain against globalisation via the EU?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
As a collection of states the EU has more of a voice internationally. As has been seen there is a collective undercurrent that has managed to delay and get members of the EU to delay or demand inquiries to treaties such as TTIP or to threaten vetos.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Still not sure I follow. "A collection of states" is surely the very definition of being in power/government circles. Anyway, what on earth is a "collective undercurrent"?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Who was it (along with the IMF) ran roughshod over Greece?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
And Spain,
And who are currently demanding France reform their labour laws which has resulted in the mass strike action.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
And this is an argument for the EU in what sense?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
And the commissions response to France's concerns over it, and the leaked negotiations/texts by Greenpeace?
The EU and commission will ultimately 'ride roughshod' over member states that don't fall into line.
Guardian said:
The EU and commission will ultimately 'ride roughshod' over member states that don't fall into line.
These young people will destroy Everything We Stand For!!!
Again: The Commission's failing was that it failed to protect Greece from the IMF
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Because I think that member states will bow to immense pressure from the EU to ratify.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Why would the commission 'protect' Greece when the EU/ECB/IMF have all been invested in imposing austerity, deregulation, selloffs of assets in return for bailouts?
As for protecting Greece from the IMF, even the IMF is starting to refuse to part-lend for bailout until the EU gives 'unconditional debt relief'.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Really? You just think the EU sat by and did nothing? They didn't play an active role in the process?
newbie
undisambiguated
From the link you provided “There cannot be an agreement without France and much less against France.” That seems clear.
I accept that if 27 of 28 countries are strongly in favour it will take formidable politicians to resist. That majority is not a foregone conclusion and anyway history shows that standing against the majority is not impossible, Thatcher got concessions at Maastricht, the French blew up the EU Constitution, the Irish could have destroyed the Lisbon treaty.
What is this 'EU' that piles on the pressure?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I hope you're right, I really do.
Because that's what it does - as we've seen, whether it be demanding reforms on member states economies and industries, deregulation, more competition, ensuring fiscal controls otherwise...
newbie
undisambiguated
Again, what is 'it'? Are you implying some sort of monolithic power with a distinct agenda?
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Don't think Cameron expected the outright win - he gave the promise of a vote as a sop to his most reactionary scumsters cos he had seen what they did to Major - "The Bastards" as the Maj memorably named them - then when returned to coalition he could blame the lack of poll on the Lib Dems. As for now the best thing is that Boris has shot his bolt and as of now seems to have seriously fucked up - good
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
that's awful in so many ways
Yeah, he's still the bookies favourite for next PM and the most popular politician in the country. Totally fucked up.
I was rather hoping that the whole referendum thing would have shown him up to most people as the nasty xenophobic piece of shit that he is.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
The Bookies also came down on the side of continued coalition after the last Gen Elec I think the Hitler guff combined with his love of the Roman Empire might tip the balance
teqniq
DisMembered
The bookies? Who after all base their calculations in matters such as these on what they perceive as public opinion. If after all's said and done if the majority of people in the UK still want him as the next PM then there is no hope.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Does appear so. I thought it an odd thing for him to do at first, but I can see the logic in it now. Cameron standing down at the next election creates a rather unique situation - a government at an election with a sitting PM who isn't fighting the election to continue as PM. I can't see how that could possibly work except with a succession already worked out - ie you campaign with your new PM-elect named. And that would mean NOT BORIS. Whoever it is - Osborne presumably - it's just not going to be Johnson. So that means Johnson not becoming PM until 2025 at the very earliest.
So await a chance that isn't going to come for at least nearly a decade, or have a punt at getting it this year. Even if he calculated that it was odds-against, he may have thought it worth it. He may also have an ego big enough to think that his endorsement would sway the vote.
Let's hope he becomes bitter over the coming years.
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