brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yeah, but for that one thing to be cited as the Damascene conversion seems well dodge. As butchersapron said above, looks like a plant.
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
Integrity has been absent from the conscience of British politicians since the passing of Lilburne and Rainsborough.
newbie
undisambiguated
so she makes herself look primetime stupid? What's in it for her? She's made herself look ridiculous- and as an immediate reaction had her integrity questioned.
Her ideological commitment to the cause would have to be both huge and longstanding to become a sleeper. Does it help her career in some way, make her appear trustworthy and her judgement sound to her colleagues or constituents?
Her ideological commitment to the cause would have to be both huge and longstanding to become a sleeper. Does it help her career in some way, make her appear trustworthy and her judgement sound to her colleagues or constituents?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I like the idea that a Tory mp is just madly passionate about the NHS, and is willing to overlook all the lies about it and damage done to it up until someone in the EU leave campaign says something not true about it and then it is at that point that you suddenly say 'enough'. Whatever is going on here, it isn't principled.
newbie
undisambiguated
she's a tory mp. Her principles are miles adrift from what you or I might recognise but let's be honest, many of them are in the process of detonating their political ambitions over their principles. Some have done it in the past, Clarke, Heseltine and Redwood spring to mind.
In making herself look foolish and lacking judgement she's effectively called into question the integrity of every MP & campaigner who doesn't disown the 350m figure, which is still in your face at the top of the Vote Leave website. A brief search hasn't revealed any fact check type website that endorses it. They're the ones who are lying, and she's called them on it. If she is a sleeper she's pulled the trigger.
gosub
~#
TBF: If I was basing my vote on the official campaigns I think I'd be remain. Both have been appalling and avoided the realities, though Leave seems to be about the harnessing of hate-not a look I think should be encouraged in politics.
Biggest flaw in the argument of returning sovereignty is the point is limited if you are returning power to a bunch of twats.
Squandered opportunity. Low oil price, minimal majority , massive trade deficit, limited scope for interest rate rises....Was a perfect chance to get ahead of the curve.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...obviously can't read alot into this but intriguing nonetheless - esp in light of Lord Hayward's intervention
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
No surprise, (if true), given the traditional demographics of the PV.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
IMO, the biggest flaw in any argument about the locus of sovereignty is the assumption that it is held by elected representatives, be they national or supra-national. The whole dissembling distraction offers a convenient vehicle for false consciousness expressed most commonly as "IWMCB".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh well iwmcb but the only way that will happen is with the sudden deaths of the political class.
gosub
~#
Its not held by elected representatives in the main, more vetted by elected representatives. They would have greater scope for action and more transparency without the EU middle man. - I presume, a detailed break down on the effect on leverage at global governance can't happen if you are pretending it isn't there. There's an almost fractal symmetry at the mo from district councils up all the way to nation states - its always the tier immediately above (or below) that's the problem, the relationship with everything two or more above is all tickety boo. Saw it in the Scots referendum, seeing it in the potential break-up of Hampshire , and in spades in the EU referendum
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It is a incredibly successful political phrase,(meme/sound-bite), though; I find it hard to recall a broadcast vox pop in which it hasn't figured. I suppose it's strength and popularity relate to its broad-brush, almost vacuous appeal to those not willing or able to invest much thought into the decision before them. It also taps into officially sanctioned, permissible notions of patriotism...particularly to demographic cohorts that have heard first-hand from older relatives about their part in saving this country from foreign powers. For others I'd imagine that the word "back" offers another clue to the phrase's appeal to those nostalgic for 'warm beer, cricket and district nurses on bicycles'. Obviously for some it's a mantra that also allows for a politically accectable expression of xenophobia, if not outright racism.
Clever stuff.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
"I want my country back"IWCMB?
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
IWMCB has to be a statement that *you are a little Englander!*
I don't "want my country back", I am comfortable that "my country" (is it really theirs in the first place?) is cooperating and collaborating with its neighbours and less likely as a result to get into catastrophic conflicts of all sorts of kinds ..
I like collaborating with neighbouring countries and think we should be doing more of it not less!
I don't "want my country back", I am comfortable that "my country" (is it really theirs in the first place?) is cooperating and collaborating with its neighbours and less likely as a result to get into catastrophic conflicts of all sorts of kinds ..
I like collaborating with neighbouring countries and think we should be doing more of it not less!
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
I honestly don't think a vote for Leave will magically give us our power back or a say in the country. We are balls deep in the globalised society and thats not going to change, someone will tell the government want to do and it won't be you or me.
At least in the EU theres a slightly higher chance of bargaining and judging by a few of the protests around we might be able to make a difference to what the EU says. Going it alone just means we'll be run roughshod over by the US or China.
Then theres the fact I just don't trust the Conservatives or Labour
At least in the EU theres a slightly higher chance of bargaining and judging by a few of the protests around we might be able to make a difference to what the EU says. Going it alone just means we'll be run roughshod over by the US or China.
Then theres the fact I just don't trust the Conservatives or Labour
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
gosub
~#
They want a North part and South part Unitary Authority
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yep...and I'd add to my little list above that is obviously a phrase that fits the needs of any people that hold some ill-defined notions that they have somehow lost out from the 'modern world'/been 'left behind'. For those ignorant(in the true sense) of the the real forces shaping their country's economy...it is an easily digestible, safe phrase to express when asked why the favour 'leave'.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, I am nostalgic for district nurses on bicycles
but more nostalgic for them off them Yes, I am nostalgic for district nurses on bicycles
Did you spend your formative years lusting over Nerys Hughes..?
The District Nurse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
gosub
~#
That's a different less likely to happen thing
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
To some extent, an observation unsurprisingly borne out by polling evidence*...
*unable to verify the polling source as it's behind Murdoch's £wall.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
To some extent, an observation unsurprisingly borne out by polling evidence*...
*unable to verify the polling source as it's behind Murdoch's £wall.
YouGov was asking me this stuff the other day, so probably them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The Swappies have very few thugs, just some lardy middle-aged faux-working class hard-man manques who think they're a bit tasty, but shit their breeks if it looks like anything might actually kick off.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Second string leaveloons mounting a legal challenge to the voter registration extension:
Leave.EU may challenge extension of voter registration deadline
It's a politically inept thing to do, but they do have a point (about Cameron only doing this to get to boost the remain vote).
Leave.EU may challenge extension of voter registration deadline
It's a politically inept thing to do, but they do have a point (about Cameron only doing this to get to boost the remain vote).
I think its a pretty ugly look. It looks like they are trying to deny people representation for their own benefit.
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