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Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

I keep running into people on both sides that think that there is going to be some sort of immediate mass deportation and/or closing of the border to people from EU/EEA member states in the event of a Leave vote. AFAIK no senior politician or even journalist on either side of the referendum has actually come out to say that that is what would happen, but then again I cannot recall many prominent voices saying that it won't happen either.
 
J Ed said:
I keep running into people on both sides that think that there is going to be some sort of immediate mass deportation and/or closing of the border to people from EU/EEA member states in the event of a Leave vote. AFAIK no senior politician or even journalist on either side of the referendum has actually come out to say that that is what would happen, but then again I cannot recall many prominent voices saying that it won't happen either.
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J Ed said:
I keep running into people on both sides that think that there is going to be some sort of immediate mass deportation and/or closing of the border to people from EU/EEA member states in the event of a Leave vote. AFAIK no senior politician or even journalist on either side of the referendum has actually come out to say that that is what would happen, but then again I cannot recall many prominent voices saying that it won't happen either.
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Plenty of non-politician lefties liberals and anarchists have said it over and over though. That's the whole point of project fear - make others say it. Make it common sense.
 
butchersapron said:
Plenty of non-politician lefties liberals and anarchists have said it over and over though. That's the whole point of project fear - make others say it. Make it common sense.
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Yeah, I actually meant to write that as well. So what's going on here? Are people hearing this from people now that it has become common sense even if it isn't being explicitly said by journos etc, assuming that it is true and it's having the reverse effect of what was intended? Is the belief making significant numbers of people more likely to vote out?
 
J Ed said:
Yeah, I actually meant to write that as well. So what's going on here? Are people hearing this from people now that it has become common sense even if it isn't being explicitly said by journos etc, assuming that it is true and it's having the reverse effect of what was intended? Is the belief making significant numbers of people more likely to vote out?
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Yes, up until the suggested reverse effect - might have had that. Don't know. It's certainly now common sense on much of the above spectrum i mentioned.
 
.....the Leave campaign's vagueness at detailing exacly what a post-Brexit scenario would look like does offer a huge blank white canvas onto which anyone & everyone can - and indeed is - projecting their own nightmares or aspirations about the future...that's pretty powerful.....even the least engaged or informed voters knows Remain is basically going to be a vote for the status quo & a continuation of business-as-usual ....
 
hot air baboon said:
.....the Leave campaign's vagueness at detailing exacly what a post-Brexit scenario would look like does offer a huge blank white canvas onto which anyone & everyone can - and indeed is - projecting their own nightmares or aspirations about the future...that's pretty powerful.....even the least engaged or informed voters knows Remain is basically going to be a vote for the status quo & a continuation of business-as-usual ....
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Yes, and in a time of big anti-establishment sentiment and disillusion a vote against the status quo is attractive regardless of what it is for.
 
gosub said:
Actually there are prtactically only two ways especially with the 2 year Article 50 time frame the Aussie MRA (Mutual Recognition Agreement) route -yep as long as you don't tinker we'll call you compliant OR the fall back to EEA (yes we are members)and al la carte it for the two years, the other WTO type routes mean going through our entire statue and tracing line by line what bit makes what an Acceptable Means of Compliance to whom so you know what you have to keep to do a deal with so and so and what is swarf- going to need a bigger civil service.

And you still have to get through a Parliament where 69% of MP's are campaigning for remain and the government is out numbered in the Lords.
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I observed the line by line approach done by a big corporate group,when they divested one it's subsidiaries (I was subbing for the subsidiary at the time). When done pragmatically and with respect (not toxic), it really isn't too much added work, compared to operationally maintaining and upgrading existing agreements.
So one argument would be that the effort for the civil service will only be a one off, rather than the perpetual bean counting exercise the Eu currently imposes.

I'm not aware of any deadline when the "cut" has to be implemented by. Is there one?
 
J Ed said:
I keep running into people on both sides that think that there is going to be some sort of immediate mass deportation and/or closing of the border to people from EU/EEA member states in the event of a Leave vote. AFAIK no senior politician or even journalist on either side of the referendum has actually come out to say that that is what would happen, but then again I cannot recall many prominent voices saying that it won't happen either.
Click to expand...
I think the point being made is that either that must happen, or the leave side are talking complete bollocks by playing the immigration and controlling our borders card while knowing that in reality leaving the EU will have fuck all impact as they'll have to agree to maintain the current free movement of people anyway.

I assume it's the latter, but as they never seem to give a straight answer to the question then it's surely valid to query whether they actually intend to close the borders and point out what that would mean in practice if they did.

It's nuts really* that leave are now putting immigration front and centre of their campaign when it's clear that leaving the EU will have zero impact on it if we stay in the European Economic Area, which they all seem to be saying we would.

*as in it's a campaign based on an outright lie.
 
Surely if anything the major possible change to immigration post-Brexit would be a more liberal policy on non-EU/EEA immigration in addition to continued freedom of movement. I don't think that that is likely, I still don't think we will leave even if there is a Leave vote, but it's far more likely than an end to EU and EEA immigration.
 
J Ed said:
Surely if anything the major possible change to immigration post-Brexit would be a more liberal policy on non-EU/EEA immigration in addition to continued freedom of movement. I don't think that that is likely, I still don't think we will leave even if there is a Leave vote, but it's far more likely than an end to EU and EEA immigration.
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it all depends who's in charge after a leave vote, but if they were to do what they're saying on immigration then we'd not get access to the EEA and the rest of the EU probably would decide to retaliate by kicking the ex pats out / putting in place visa entry requirements. It's generally how it works if one country puts in place a points based immigration system then the other countries affected will do the same in reverse.
 
pocketscience said:
I observed the line by line approach done by a big corporate group,when they divested one it's subsidiaries (I was subbing for the subsidiary at the time). When done pragmatically and with respect (not toxic), it really isn't too much added work, compared to operationally maintaining and upgrading existing agreements.
So one argument would be that the effort for the civil service will only be a one off, rather than the perpetual bean counting exercise the Eu currently imposes.

I'm not aware of any deadline when the "cut" has to be implemented by. Is there one?
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2 years after article 50 called, extensions require the unanimous approval of all 28 states - ie not realistic and easy to hold to ransom
 
go on then butch, how would you see this panning out in terms of the EU reaction should the loudest brexit cheerleader get his way and end up implementing a points based immigration policy for EU citizens?

This is their policy position, I'm not sure why they should be allowed to spout such bollocks unchallenged.

UKIP launches Immigration policy

Published
Today in Central London, UKIP Leader Nigel Farage MEP and UKIP Migration spokesman Steven Woolfe MEP launched our Immigration policy.

UKIP would introduce a visa system based on the Australian points model. This would be an ethical visa system for work and study, based on the principle of equal application to all people. As Nigel Farage said in his article for the Daily Telegraph, UKIP's immigration policy is built on fairness. Watch Nigel's speech by clicking below:


Read onto to see what else we have announced.

UKIP will amongst other things:

  • Create a Migration Control Commission – with a remit to bring down net immigration, and establish a visa system based on an Australian points based system while assuring the right number of highly skilled workers from across the globe are able to enter
  • Increase Border Agency Staff by 2,500. Staff to be allocated in new division outside of current management structure
  • Establish an ethical Visa system for work, and study to be based on the principle of equal application to all people
  • Abolish rules discriminating EU citizens from non-EU citizens
  • No amnesty on illegal immigration
ON SECURITY AND ENTRY POINT SYSTEMS

  • We would establish one passport queue for British Citizens and a second passport queue for Rest of the World;
  • We would increase Border Agency Staff by 2,500, with staff to be allocated in a new division outside of current management structure
  • We would implement new technology that is able to ensure all passport and visa holders are counted in and out and identifies over-stayers, and we’d commence negotiations with other countries with biometric and improved technology for access to faster passport access to the UK.
visa.png
ON EMPLOYMENT AND VISAS

  • UKIP plans to establish an ethical visa system for work, and study to be based on the principle of equal application to all people.
  • UKIP plans to abolish rules discriminating against non-EU citizens, in favour of EU citizens.
  • UKIP plans to establish a visa system based on the Australian points based system.
  • And UKIP plans a ‘Highly Skilled Workers’ only work visa, providing the opportunity for permanent leave to remain.
Click to expand...
 
free spirit said:
go on then butch, how would you see this panning out in terms of the EU reaction should the loudest brexit cheerleader get his way and end up implementing a points based immigration policy for EU citizens?

This is their policy position, I'm not sure why they should be allowed to spout such bollocks unchallenged.
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I was making a point about your passing off of handed down lies as common sense. It's true. This is what will happen. Listen to me i know. Ypu'll get kicked out. Yep. You won't be able to come back in either. Your mates, they're all getting kicked out. Your mum, she;s getting kicked out of france too.

What i think will happen doesn't effect that.
 
butchersapron said:
I was making a point about your passing off of handed down lies as common sense. It's true. This is what will happen. Listen to me i know. Ypu'll get kicked out. Yep. You won't be able to come back in either. Your mates, they're all getting kicked out. Your mum, she;s getting kicked out of france too.

What i think will happen doesn't effect that.
Click to expand...
so you're not prepared to venture your own opinion on the subject then? just snipe from the sidelines.
 
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