Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[Pickman's model]

go on then butch, how would you see this panning out in terms of the EU reaction should the loudest brexit cheerleader get his way and end up implementing a points based immigration policy for EU citizens?

This is their policy position, I'm not sure why they should be allowed to spout such bollocks unchallenged.

Don't talk bollocks, brexit will kill UKIP.

 

[free spirit]

kicking the ex pats out

this bit probably wouldn't happen, as long as the UK agreed that those from the EU who're here already can stay as well, but if the UK introduced a points based immigration system for EU citizens then I can't see any way that the the EU wouldn't do the same for UK citizens.

 

[stethoscope]

FFS, UKIP are gonna do shit. They might have plenty of appeal but really, they're going to shit.

 

[butchersapron]

kicking the ex pats out

this bit probably wouldn't happen, as long as the UK agreed that those from the EU who're here already can stay as well, but if the UK introduced a points based immigration system for EU citizens then I can't see any way that the the EU wouldn't do the same for UK citizens.

The sort of consistent clear thinking and truth telling needed right now.

 

[pocketscience]

it all depends who's in charge after a leave vote, but if they were to do what they're saying on immigration then we'd not get access to the EEA and the rest of the EU probably would decide to retaliate by kicking the ex pats out / putting in place visa entry requirements. It's generally how it works if one country puts in place a points based immigration system then the other countries affected will do the same in reverse.

Like how the Eu threw Switzerland out of their free trade agreement after they voted in a referendum to put an end to uncontrolled immigration....
.. .oh, wait up, within 6 months the Schengen agreement was in tatters and nestle products still dominate supermarket shelves of the Eu lands, tariff free.

 

[butchersapron]

FFS, UKIP are gonna do shit. They might have plenty of appeal but really, they're going to shit.

The main point is that other people are eugh and stupid and believe lies. Here's a set of lies i believe. Here's - oddly - why they're not true. Odd little intervention from freespirit.

I look forward to a massive post later from him that non one reads where he researchs the wrong stuff.

 

[free spirit]

Don't talk bollocks, brexit will kill UKIP.

but it's also the stated policy of the main Vote Leave campaign. Here's the statement from Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, and Gisela Stuart

Fourth, by the next general election, we will create a genuine Australian-style points based immigration system. The automatic right of all EU citizens to come to live and work in the UK will end, as will EU control over vital aspects of our social security system. EU citizens will be subject to legislation made by those we elect in Westminster, not in Brussels. We could then create fairness between EU citizens and others, including those from Commonwealth countries.

Those seeking entry for work or study should be admitted on the basis of their skills without discrimination on the ground of nationality. To gain the right to work, economic migrants will have to be suitable for the job in question. For relevant jobs, we will be able to ensure that all those who come have the ability to speak good English. Such a system can be much less bureaucratic and much simpler than the existing system for non-EU citizens.

 

[Pickman's model]

this bit probably wouldn't happen, as long as the UK agreed that those from the EU who're here already can stay as well, but if the UK introduced a points based immigration system for EU citizens then I can't see any way that the the EU wouldn't do the same for UK citizens.

So you honestly think there's a chance Irish people might be asked to leave

 

[butchersapron]

WTF do this leave types thinks capital is - a vengeful wronged partner or a self interested profit seeking set of shared motivations? It's so crude, they just turn the eu (and it's capital/relationship) into people being pissed off or happy.

 

[Pickman's model]

but it's also the stated policy of the main Vote Leave campaign. Here's the statement from Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, and Gisela Stuart

Yeh. You think they'll be in the driving seat?

 

[pocketscience]

2 years after article 50 called, extensions require the unanimous approval of all 28 states - ie not realistic and easy to hold to ransom

but article 50 is dependent on a notice of withdrawal & subsequent withdrawal agreement afaiu. Why can't the notice of withdrawal will be once the top level objectives are ironed out?

 

[butchersapron]

The way to analyse this is def to look what a group of self interested politicians say will happen. I can think of no other possible way to proceed.

 

[free spirit]

Like how the Eu threw Switzerland out of their free trade agreement after they voted in a referendum to put an end to uncontrolled immigration....
.. .oh, wait up, within 6 months the Schengen agreement was in tatters and nestle products still dominate supermarket shelves of the Eu lands, tariff free.

have the Swiss actually implemented that referendum decision? nope, they're supposed to implement it by next year, but so far the EU have just managed to force them to accept Croatia as part of the free movement area, so that doesn't seem to be going well.

 

[butchersapron]

have he Swiss actually implemented that referendum decision? nope, they're supposed to implement it by next year, but so far the EU have just managed to force them to accept Croatia as part of the free movement area, so that doesn't seem to be going well.

I love democracy - the eu trying to force people to do things.

 

[free spirit]

Yeh. You think they'll be in the driving seat?

yeah fuck it, let's just give a load if right wing anti-immigrant tories a free pass to spout their anti-immigration bollocks unchallenged because your crystal ball says they'll not be in charge if they win the referendum.

 

[free spirit]

I love democracy - the eu trying to force people to do things.

closed borders make the world a much better place to live in.....

 

[butchersapron]

yeah fuck it, let's just give a load if right wing anti-immigrant tories a free pass to spout their anti-immigration bollocks unchallenged because your crystal ball says they'll not be in charge if they win the referendum.

Here is why you're going to lose.

 

[Pickman's model]

yeah fuck it, let's just give a load if right wing anti-immigrant tories a free pass to spout their anti-immigration bollocks unchallenged because your crystal ball says they'll not be in charge if they win the referendum.

Maybe you should respond to what I've actually said and not to what you think I've said.

 

[butchersapron]

closed borders make the world a much better place to live in.....

Force these border open. I don't care how you voted.

You have no idea just how authoritarian you liberals are do you

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe you should respond to what I've actually said and not to what you think I've said.

He won't. He doesn't. He's just done the same to me and others over many posts.

The long ill-researched one is coming.

 

[chilango]

Here is why you're going to lose.

We're all going to lose.

 

[free spirit]

Maybe you should respond to what I've actually said and not to what you think I've said.

likewise

So you honestly think there's a chance Irish people might be asked to leave

 

[butchersapron]

If you don't like my shit authoritarian idea then you're obv a ****whatever FS feels fits*****.

Never replying to the actual content offered to him.

 

[Pickman's model]

likewise

So for you Ireland not part of the EU

 

[butchersapron]

We're all going to lose.

But this fucking smug cunt more than others - i hope.

And no, that's no true anyway. There can be favourable reconfigurations of capital.

 

[free spirit]

Here is why you're going to lose.

me?

I doubt it'll just be me losing out if that mob end up in charge and negotiating our exit from the EU. I somehow doubt that the left exit brigade will be getting much of a look in on the negotiations or forming the government afterwards, they'll just get to watch from the sidelines as all those pesky EU regulations get binned.

 

[fractionMan]

Leave will be a fucking disaster for science funding in the UK. They'll fill the gap with even bigger fees and we're headed for the american system. the shits.

 

[free spirit]

So for you Ireland not part of the EU

obviously they are, but the leave campaign have excluded them from their pie in the sky crap about points based systems and quotas, so I wasn't making the point about Ireland either.

First, there will be no change for Irish citizens. The right of Irish citizens to enter, reside and work in the UK is already enshrined in our law. This will be entirely unaffected by a vote to leave on 23 June.

As the Northern Ireland Secretary has made clear, the common travel area that has existed since the creation of an independent Irish state will not be affected. There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

 

[butchersapron]

me?

I doubt it'll just be me losing out if that mob end up in charge and negotiating our exit from the EU. I somehow doubt that the left exit brigade will be getting much of a look in on the negotiations or forming the government afterwards, they'll just get to watch from the sidelines as all those pesky EU regulations get binned.

Note the slip between the stay vote losing the referendum - your post being an example of why they will lose - and that meaning people that you say that you politically oppose coming to power. A horrible revealing slip -given that a) they're already in power and b) that you've established no logical connection between the vote and this happening. You're just common sensing - again.

 

[pocketscience]

have the Swiss actually implemented that referendum decision? nope, they're supposed to implement it by next year, but so far the EU have just managed to force them to accept Croatia as part of the free movement area, so that doesn't seem to be going well.

You've missed the point. Freedom of movement according to the Eu, was carved in stone. . The threats were loud at the time and Schengen, as a concept, was banded about as the sacrosanct cornerstone to be regarded as the standard. Veer away from it and there's trouble......... 6 months later: Schengen, for the convenience of our German overlords, is dead.
For the hard of thinking - what the Eu projects to naysayers (democratic or otherwise) as a rule, is actually very flimsy.