Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[brogdale]

Disengagement is only apathy when it's not deliberate? So if I choose to completely disengage from any political activity, critique or contemplation, take no part in civic society and answer any enquiry of a political nature with a shrug and a mumbled 'fuck all to do with me mate', I'm not being apathetic as long as I positively choose to behave in this way?
That kinda wipes out the demographic previously known as 'the apathetic'...which is a shame because at least since the Elmira study, a healthy dose of apathy has been regarded as a basic condition of representatitive democracy.
Your definition may spell the end of bourgeois political economy. Well done you.

Pretty straightforward, I'd have thought?
In the context of the referendum, (which is the subject matter of this thread), I was saying that I don't accept that a deliberate position of disengagement is necessarily indicative of a lack of interest or concern; attributes usually associated with apathy.
That's all.

 

[gosub]

You'll be unsurprised to learn that I don't regard deliberate disengagement as apathy.
Neither do I recognise that either 'option' offered in the referendum question represent the prospect of meaningful change in the circumstances of working class people.

Given the actuality of widespread opposition whichever outcome, it quite understandable that there would be as little meat pared as possible. That this knocks on to a lack of meaningful change quite deliberate. Not sure that justifies a downing of tools but is your personal right.

 

[ffsear]

New poll now suggests Leave is ahead of remain

New Brexit polls shows 'leave' side ahead, GBP falls

UK voters leaning towards Brexit, Guardian poll reveals

 

[danny la rouge]

I've not been able to work up much of a fuck about this referendum, but this caught my attention:

Chris Grayling: notion of second indyref on back of Brexit is just talk

"THE prospect of a second independence referendum should Scotland be dragged out of the European Union against its wishes has been brushed aside by UK cabinet minister and leading Leave campaigner Chris Grayling, who dismissed it as “just talk”."

“It’s not remotely either sensible or feasible for Scotland to start talking about a second referendum…The people of Scotland voted very clearly to stay in the Union and Alex Salmond said at the time that was a decision for a generation; we should hold him to that.”

As it happens, I don't think there will be a second independence referendum as a result of the outcome of June's vote, nor would I want there to be as I think it'd be lost, but that's not what I'm interested in here. It was Grayling's remark that "we should hold [Salmond] to that".

- How? First, he's no longer First Minister, nor leader of the SNP, nor is he even an MSP: he's a Westminster MP now. He wouldn't be calling a second referendum; Nicola Sturgeon would. And she says she'll only do so if she sees an appetite from the electorate for one. (And that's who should decide whether there is to be one anyway: the public).

Furthermore, whatever remark Salmond may or may not have made about the independence referendum being the last "for a generation", there was no such clause included on the paper. So while he might have given his opinion on the matter, I fail to see how it was binding on anyone else. Even less so given that he is no longer in a position to make any guarantee one way or the other. If the Scottish Parliament decides to call a second referendum, Salmond won't be there to see it done, unless as a visitor.

So Grayling's threat to "hold him to it" is in itself "just talk". And nonsensical talk at that.

 

[two sheds]

Perhaps we could hold Cameron to the NHS being safe in his hands.

 

[DotCommunist]

graylings a grade A twat though, proper robot. Came to my attention when he tried to ban prisoners recieving books sent in. Which was then quashed by the courts making him look like the book banning cunt he is

 

[laptop]

Scotland is for remain, while voters in England and Wales would back Brexit.

In the event that Scotland swung it for Remain, would Grayling demand TWO new referenda?

 

[Sprocket.]

I believe grayling should always be returned to the depths they emerge from!

 

[brogdale]

I've not been able to work up much of a fuck about this referendum, but this caught my attention:

Chris Grayling: notion of second indyref on back of Brexit is just talk

"THE prospect of a second independence referendum should Scotland be dragged out of the European Union against its wishes has been brushed aside by UK cabinet minister and leading Leave campaigner Chris Grayling, who dismissed it as “just talk”."

“It’s not remotely either sensible or feasible for Scotland to start talking about a second referendum…The people of Scotland voted very clearly to stay in the Union and Alex Salmond said at the time that was a decision for a generation; we should hold him to that.”

As it happens, I don't think there will be a second independence referendum as a result of the outcome of June's vote, nor would I want there to be as I think it'd be lost, but that's not what I'm interested in here. It was Grayling's remark that "we should hold [Salmond] to that".

- How? First, he's no longer First Minister, nor leader of the SNP, nor is he even an MSP: he's a Westminster MP now. He wouldn't be calling a second referendum; Nicola Sturgeon would. And she says she'll only do so if she sees an appetite from the electorate for one. (And that's who should decide whether there is to be one anyway: the public).

Furthermore, whatever remark Salmond may or may not have made about the independence referendum being the last "for a generation", there was no such clause included on the paper. So while he might have given his opinion on the matter, I fail to see how it was binding on anyone else. Even less so given that he is no longer in a position to make any guarantee one way or the other. If the Scottish Parliament decides to call a second referendum, Salmond won't be there to see it done, unless as a visitor.

So Grayling's threat to "hold him to it" is in itself "just talk". And nonsensical talk at that.

Grayling's only interest here is a crass attempt to neutralise what might be perceived as a downside/barrier to English swivel-eyed unionists piling in to vote leave.

 

[J Ed]

I love how the people who call Corbyn an IRA sympathiser, a Hamas supporter and a dangerous red are also criticising him for (unlike once ISIS supporter and now just 'proud Muslim' Sadiq Khan) refusing to share a platform with Tories to support remain.

 

[ViolentPanda]

graylings a grade A twat though, proper robot. Came to my attention when he tried to ban prisoners recieving books sent in. Which was then quashed by the courts making him look like the book banning cunt he is

He's much worse than a 'bot, he's a numbskull who believes himself to be a political genius.

 

[marty21]

Anyone else see the leave campaign political broadcast ? A bizarre ad for their win £50m on predicting all the results in the Euro Championship (ham fisted reference to the £350m a week claim) followed by how great the NHS will be after Brexit as we can spend all that money on it. It made Britain First broadcasts seem like oscar winning material.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Anyone else see the leave campaign political broadcast ? A bizarre ad for their win £50m on predicting all the results in the Euro Championship (ham fisted reference to the £350m a week claim) followed by how great the NHS will be after Brexit as we can spend all that money on it. It made Britain First broadcasts seem like oscar winning material.

I think it was deliberately amateurish and a bit shit, to appeal to the kind of older voters who adored Love thy Neighbour and feel lost in the modern world.

 

[gosub]

I think it was deliberately amateurish and a bit shit, to appeal to the kind of older voters who adored Love thy Neighbour and feel lost in the modern world.

Coz they are really having to work hard for that demographic... Looks shot out of order and they didn't even fully clean off the facepacks for the first scene

 

[weltweit]

Was it this one?:

 

[marty21]

Was it this one?:

Yes but with the added bonus of a football competition and 'comedy' sketch

 

[SE25]

fun to see the NHS used as a reason to leave by people who couldn't give a shit about it normally

 

[gosub]

fun to see the NHS used as a reason to leave by people who couldn't give a shit about it normally

But the NHS is patriotic, it was in the Olympic ceremony and everything

 

[ffsear]

Possible very dumb question coming up.....

We we still be able to enter the EuroMillions lottery if we leave the EU?

 

[two sheds]

the pound will plummet

 

[Flanflinger]

Possible very dumb question coming up.....

We we still be able to enter the EuroMillions lottery if we leave the EU?

Yeah....................but your winnings will be all in Drachmas.

 

[DotCommunist]

Possible very dumb question coming up.....

We we still be able to enter the EuroMillions lottery if we leave the EU?

no, you'll have to sate your sinful gambling habits on those roullette machines at the bookies and weep as two weeks wages are gone in three spins

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

 

[Teaboy]

South West trains again. Somebody will be getting in the shit if they find out which train that is.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

South West trains again. Somebody will be getting in the shit if they find out which train that is.

Fella's been suspended apparently

 

[Teaboy]

Fella's been suspended apparently

Then again it is a Stagecoach franchise and Brian Souter was bang up for independence when it was the Scottish referendum. Perhaps that should be the blokes defence......

 

[killer b]

Preston.

 

[Idris2002]

WTF?

Seriously, what is this intended to mean?

 

[Teaboy]

Its rivers of blood time again. Oasis lyrics are riddled with references to Enoch's speeches.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Does anyone really give a toss what Noel thinks or says these days? Even his brother hates him & thinks he's a potato!