Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[skyscraper101]

In my preferred version of the world, Cameron would be competing against a mystery EU central banker via phone, while all the other leaders stand around at lecterns, and reveal just how little they are prepared to concede to the UK via the medium of opening red boxes.

 

[gosub]

In my preferred version of the world, Cameron would be competing against a mystery EU central banker via phone, while all the other leaders stand around at lecterns, and reveal just how little they are prepared to concede to the UK via the medium of opening red boxes.

that was the greek referendum.


Were onto pointless now where Mr Cameron has to say what he wants to change and a big graphic line comes down, the closer to "fuck all" he gets, the more likely he comes home clutching his pointless trophy and calling himself a winner

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

HSBC has promised to continue sullying London by not fucking off to the Far East, why do they not seem to give a shit if the UK stays in or out?

 

[Teaboy]

HSBC has promised to continue sullying London by not fucking off to the Far East, why do they not seem to give a shit if the UK stays in or out?

Could be because unlike other banks most of their business is outside of the EU and therefore it won't have a huge impact on them. Or could it be that the authorities in places like the US or China might not be so accommodating to their continual law breaking and general shiftiness?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Could be because unlike other banks most of their business is outside of the EU and therefore it won't have a huge impact on them. Or could it be that the authorities in places like the US or China might not be so accommodating to their continual law breaking and general shiftiness?

Maybe. I really don't know enough about it. All I do know is that HSBC, Toyota, JCB and many others don't seem to care one way or the other. But every day some other cunt pops up to tell us a load of obvious bollocks about what will happen if we leave; in the past 7 days Easyjet's boos said air travel will go back to being the preserve of the rich if we leave, boss of TUI said that Brexit will make flying unsafe. And today those heavyweights of global power, the AA has declared that the cost of petrol will go up if we leave the EU.

Just sounds like a load of demented wibblers

 

[Teaboy]

Maybe. I really don't know enough about it. All I do know is that HSBC, Toyota, JCB and many others don't seem to care one way or the other. But every day some other cunt pops up to tell us a load of obvious bollocks about what will happen if we leave; in the past 7 days Easyjet's boos said air travel will go back to being the preserve of the rich if we leave, boss of TUI said that Brexit will make flying unsafe. And today those heavyweights of global power, the AA has declared that the cost of petrol will go up if we leave the EU.

Just sounds like a load of demented wibblers

I guess it depends on how you do your business. A few years ago I worked for a Norwegian company here in the UK and we shipped all our product from Norway, it was a bit of a hassle because it had to go through customs each time which stuff from the EU didn't, this meant longer lead times then our competition. If you import or export a lot of stuff to/from the EU being outside it will be a bit more of a hassle, for sure but how much more.

I have no idea how it would effect airlines or tour companies and if flying his going to become the preserve of the rich again then easyjet may as well shut up shop which hardly seems likely.

I think there is another factor with the self proclaimed 'voices for business' and that they are often using their platform to express their personal opinion and dressing it up as 'what business thinks' and 'what is good for Britain'.

 

[gosub]

Maybe. I really don't know enough about it. All I do know is that HSBC, Toyota, JCB and many others don't seem to care one way or the other. But every day some other cunt pops up to tell us a load of obvious bollocks about what will happen if we leave; in the past 7 days Easyjet's boos said air travel will go back to being the preserve of the rich if we leave, boss of TUI said that Brexit will make flying unsafe. And today those heavyweights of global power, the AA has declared that the cost of petrol will go up if we leave the EU.

Just sounds like a load of demented wibblers

tbf Easyjet more pointed out the EU breaking national carriers monopoly made Easyjet possible, which was sort of true if you look at what happened to Laker. Thought it was RAC not AA, is based on slide of £ but they said negligible compared to oil price fluctuations, TUI I didn't understand though cos that was about Tunisia and something that had happened while UK was in EU

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

tbf Easyjet more pointed out the EU breaking national carriers monopoly made Easyjet possible, which was sort of true if you look at what happened to Laker.

I understand that, but to suggest it will revert to before European Open Skies is hysterical bullshit though. We have Open Skies agreements with the US now and it's the way the world is heading.

 

[gosub]

I understand that, but to suggest it will revert to before European Open Skies is hysterical bullshit though. We have Open Skies agreements with the US now and it's the way the world is heading.

depends on the nature of out and how much of the acquis communautaire we take on, full on out and WE don't have open skies, EU & US do, and WE aren't either

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

depends on the nature of out and how much of the acquis communautaire we take on, full on out and WE don't have open skies, EU & US do, and WE aren't either

In which case, fuck 'em. Pretty sure that there are more flights from London to the US everyday than whole of the rest of the EU put together. Those airlines aren't going to be grounded just cos we tell the EU to get fucked.

And BMW, Audi etc. are going to shut up shop over here either.


I really want to hear some good reasons for staying, all I'm hearing is rubbish.

 

[gosub]

In which case, fuck 'em. Pretty sure that there are more flights from London to the US everyday than whole of the rest of the EU put together. Those airlines aren't going to be grounded just cos we tell the EU to get fucked.

And BMW, Audi etc. are going to shut up shop over here either.


I really want to hear some good reasons for staying, all I'm hearing is rubbish.

no Open Skies is a US/EU deal, which we would not be signatories any more. Rest of EU would still have the deal with the US ,UK wouldn't.
Its why getting too far out of EEA is suicide, but you got the nutterswho are worked up about immigration leading the arguement

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

no Open Skies is a US/EU deal, which we would not be signatories any more.

I know, but do you really think that the day after we vote OUT that the planes will stop flying? Of course they won't, so it will all continue as before until new deals are drawn up.

BA even has an airline that operates solely Paris-New York called Open Skies. But BA is now owned by a company called IAG, which is headquartered in Madrid. All that isn't going to just stop.

I really do want to hear decent arguments for staying in, not sure Open Skies is even a vaguely valid one tbf.

 

[1%er]

I guess it depends on how you do your business. A few years ago I worked for a Norwegian company here in the UK and we shipped all our product from Norway, it was a bit of a hassle because it had to go through customs each time which stuff from the EU didn't, this meant longer lead times then our competition. If you import or export a lot of stuff to/from the EU being outside it will be a bit more of a hassle, for sure but how much more.

I have no idea how it would effect airlines or tour companies and if flying his going to become the preserve of the rich again then easyjet may as well shut up shop which hardly seems likely.

I think there is another factor with the self proclaimed 'voices for business' and that they are often using their platform to express their personal opinion and dressing it up as 'what business thinks' and 'what is good for Britain'.

Norway is a good example of how the UK could work outside of the EU but inside of the European Economic Area as a member of the European Free Trade Association

 

[gosub]

I know, but do you really think that the day after we vote OUT that the planes will stop flying? Of course they won't, so it will all continue as before until new deals are drawn up.

BA even has an airline that operates solely Paris-New York called Open Skies. But BA is now owned by a company called IAG, which is headquartered in Madrid. All that isn't going to just stop.

I really do want to hear decent arguments for staying in, not sure Open Skies is even a vaguely valid one tbf.

Can't help. Unless Leave settles on "we can rely on WTO", which they haven't, yet.

Speedbirds are on a G plate so that work around wouldn't work, though in practical terms would be a lot of customs inspections of radio documentation. In the event of an OUT vote, nothing changes til Article 50 invoked, then there's a 2 year period to sort everything out, the headache one would be EUropean arrest warrants actually, with ample opportunity for £1000 per hour lawyers to question their legitimacy during the state of flux.

What is mental is how little work OUTERS have put into what OUT should be, in the 20 odd years they've had, but then they are largely 'you don't want to do that' types rather than offing a constructive alternative. It is a very complex problem that needs more than a back of a beermat solution. The best of the bunch is flexcite though the two main contenders for out designation aren't using it partially coz the author is as prickly as a hedgehog and partially coz its not the panacea they are after - but nothing is, though completely disadvantaging UK business would certainly reverse immigration figures as most of us had to leave to look for work.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's certainly very complex.

 

[gosub]

It's certainly very complex.

take a holding position in EFTA and then move from there over a decade depending on what works politically and internationally

 

[redsquirrel]

Get out there and vote for neoliberalism with a European face

It's that type of wanky shit that reaffirms my attention to vote leave. All those nice "leftists" that go to Glastonbury, like that tory councillor who died in the bogs or the tax dodging cunt Bono.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's that type of wanky shit that reaffirms my attention to vote leave. All those nice "leftists" that go to Glastonbury, like that tory councillor who died in the bogs or the tax dodging cunt Bono.

You forgot Kate Moss.

 

[brogdale]

Norway is a good example of how the UK could work outside of the EU but inside of the European Economic Area as a member of the European Free Trade Association

What, paying 95% of present cost to achieve no voting rights over rulings that have to be observed for the trading 'rights'?
Sounds great!

 

[gosub]

What, paying 95% of present cost to achieve no voting rights over rulings that have to be observed for the trading 'rights'?
Sounds great!

But you do. Coz most of the stuff gets global reg'd, and you get a say there, then EU reg'd and you are pulling 95% out of thin air (but so do OUTERS he argue all EU money could be saved)

 

[brogdale]

But you do. Coz most of the stuff gets global reg'd, and you get a say there, then EU reg'd and you are pulling 95% out of thin air (but so do OUTERS he argue all EU money could be saved)

95% figure from here.
But hey, not much of this matters.

 

[gosub]

95% figure from here.
But hey, not much of this matters.

thats why cars look so different in Asia, a laptop you bought in America won't work here (DVD's true) even the bendy bananas thing is WTO

just gone through your pdf link, admittedly just did Find :95 , only vaguely relevant bit is :The Financial Mechanism Office (FMO) is a newer organisation, which has only really developed in recent years, having in total 55 employees today. The greatest challenge for FMO is the onerous task of administering the EEA funds well. But there are also institutional tensions in the relationship with Norway and the two other countries, which are magnified by the fact that these are to a large extent Norwegian funds – both because Norway pays about 95% of the common EEA funds, and because there is an equivalently large individual Norwegian financial mechanism.32 In total, Norway pays about 97% of the funds. To an increasing extent the Norwegian authorities would like to manage this from home, and to use the funds as a foreign policy tool, and this too puts certain structural stresses on the FMO organisationally.



Thats Norway pays 95% of the administrative cost of EEA, which is not the same as EU, and we would be chipping into

 

[brogdale]

thats why cars look so different in Asia, a laptop you bought in America won't work here (DVD's true) even the bendy bananas thing is WTO

just gone through your pdf link, admittedly just did Find :95 , only vaguely relevant bit is :The Financial Mechanism Office (FMO) is a newer organisation, which has only really developed in recent years, having in total 55 employees today. The greatest challenge for FMO is the onerous task of administering the EEA funds well. But there are also institutional tensions in the relationship with Norway and the two other countries, which are magnified by the fact that these are to a large extent Norwegian funds – both because Norway pays about 95% of the common EEA funds, and because there is an equivalently large individual Norwegian financial mechanism.32 In total, Norway pays about 97% of the funds. To an increasing extent the Norwegian authorities would like to manage this from home, and to use the funds as a foreign policy tool, and this too puts certain structural stresses on the FMO organisationally.



Thats Norway pays 95% of the administrative cost of EEA, which is not the same as EU, and we would be chipping into

More details here

 

[The Pale King]

So is this just a piece of political theatre tonight then?

 

[gosub]

So is this just a piece of political theatre tonight then?

Depends on what level you are talking

 

[Riklet]

From a link I just read, even if we voted to leave, it wouldn't come into effect for 2 years.

Does anyone have any idea how UK citizens living in other EU countries might be affected?

If we vote to leave, I would be tempted to apply for duel nationality, if this became possible here.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If we vote to leave, I would be tempted to apply for duel nationality

 

[gosub]

More details here

From that report :
It is not possible to compare net payments between those of an EU Member State and those of a Non-Member state. However, Norway’s financial contributions include:

EU programmes and agencies
Norway participates in a number of EU programmes and agencies through provisions in the EEA Agreement or on the basis of bilateral agreements with the EU. Norway (and our EEA partners Iceland and Liechtenstein) contributes to the budget of the EU programmes and agencies we participate in. In 2013, Norway’s contribution was around 296 million euros.

When the EEA Joint Committee agrees to incorporate programmes and agencies into the EEA Agreement, Norway commits to making a yearly financial contribution to the relevant EU budget. EEA EFTA states fund their participation by an amount corresponding to the relative size of their GDP compared to the GDP of the whole EEA. The EEA EFTA states participation is hence on equal footing with EU member states (i.e. Norwegian projects are also funded).

In addition Norway contributes around 200 million Norwegian kroner annually for our contribution in the regional cooperation programmes under INTERREG.

so 296 million euros + 26.8million euros = 322.8 million euros

______________________________________________________________________________________
In the same year the UK paid in 17.07bn euros and got back 6.31bn euros so net in of 10.76billion euros


In 2013 , the GDP of the UK was 5.1 times the size of Norway's .
Norway GDP | 1960-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News 522.35
United Kingdom GDP | 1960-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News 2712.3


The link you gave warns its a bit apples with oranges. But 5.1 times 322.8 million euros is 1.65 billion euros

that would have been 15% of what we paid. I don't think you'd see all of that 85% saving but you'd see a significant amount.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In the same year the UK paid in 17.07bn euros and got back 6.31bn euros so net in of 10.76billion euros

t.

I can't click on that link to check it, but one thing to remember is that not everyone in the UK is equal wrt eu spending. Much of the money that comes back to the UK comes in the form of various grants to underprivileged areas. Hastings, for instance, had an EU development grant of some £200 million a few years ago. Narrowing the calculation down to 'is the EU good for Hastings?', the answer is 'absolutely yes' - you can point at the buildings and parks that prove it.

 

[gosub]

I can't click on that link to check it, but one thing to remember is that not everyone in the UK is equal wrt eu spending. Much of the money that comes back to the UK comes in the form of various grants to underprivileged areas. Hastings, for instance, had an EU development grant of some £200 million a few years ago. Narrowing the calculation down to 'is the EU good for Hastings?', the answer is 'absolutely yes'.

which would be part of the 6.31bn