Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[DotCommunist]

Well I can name my constituency MP and several local councillors off the top of my head but not any of the MEPs (remember that we don't have individual MEPs) elected in my constituency.

constituency MP, Ward councillor (lab). No idea on MEP. Businissmans talking shop

 

[inva]

the only reason I know the name of my local mp is because he came to where I was working some years back before that I had no idea who it was. I don't know who any MEPs or councillors are. and I'm against the EU - uh oh.

 

[DotCommunist]

What does that even mean?

other than 'you only care about shit tv chav'? Well 'the north' is an ill defined set of lands south of the Wall, In this case I'd turn the example on its head because greece is basically house stark in terms of ill treatment by capricious greedy cunts

 

[Pickman's model]

other than 'you only care about shit tv chav'? Well 'the north' is an ill defined set of lands south of the Wall, In this case I'd turn the example on its head because greece is basically house stark in terms of ill treatment by capricious greedy cunts

Certainly not house lannister

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's done.

Eu supported business owners like free spirit are for the eu.

No one anti-eu has anything but racist arguments. Nothing.

I'm not anti-EU per se, I'm anti this "European Union", because it doesn't fulfil any useful purpose for Europe's workers.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As if any average joe in any other European country can name their local MEP either...

In Germany, most of the daft buggers know all of their various layers of political representatives; from the local rathaus to the Bundestag. They're oddly anal like that.

 

[DotCommunist]

Certainly not house lannister

when you see them at work 'house lannister always pays its debts' seems more and more like a threat than a boast of solvency

 

[ViolentPanda]

Even articul8 has learnt not to do that stuff from that last one. I saw him on a video being quite good earlier this week. Putting the out case.

Basically, we beat him into shape.

 

[free spirit]

It's done.

Eu supported business owners like free spirit are for the eu.

do you have the same level of contempt for all self employed trades people, or do you reserve it for those in the renewables sector?

divisive crap

 

[free spirit]

As said by others, the only way you'll be able tame them is to vote leave. Tories will continue its tail spin and ukip will loose it's relevance.

You expect that winning the EU referrendum will in some way disempower the eurosceptic right (who've just won the referendum) to the point where they'll lose their relevance and no longer be an electoral threat?

how does that work?

I'm genuinely baffled at some of the logic on display in this thread.

 

[campanula]

I do know the name of my MEP (Howitt) because my son-in-law was their cleaner (they are filthoids).

 

[Pickman's model]

You expect that winning the EU referrendum will in some way disempower the eurosceptic right (who've just won the referendum) to the point where they'll lose their relevance and no longer be an electoral threat?

how does that work?

I'm genuinely baffled at some of the logic on display in this thread.

Perhaps if you engage brain what currently baffles you will become clear.

 

[gosub]

Cameron will be lucky not to be out on his arse either way but defo gone on a leave vote, though who ever picks up after caretaker is managing a wounded beast 17 majority before this started, but you seem strangely to have reached a different conclusion as to what will win out - managed xenophobia or managed capital

Have I? Please do enlighten me about the conclusion I've reached.

So I've been through it and you do bang on about the immigration lead leaving repeatedly even at one stage pointing out, correctly, that points based is lifted straight from UKIP manifesto. There are two types of leave inside the single market which managed capital would prefer and outside (the managed xenophobia) where you can do that type of thing with immigration. You get round the problem of the remainers outnumbering the leavers even within Tory MP's (168/131) with a 'ah but there will be a snap election which will bolster this paths numbers.' They would need the support of 100 hundred opposition MP's to call the election in the first place.

The logic of a lame government, (with a replacement PM who would be little better or worse than the current one) limping on til 2020 implementing very little beyond a single market leave seems far more likely than either UKIP capturing the Tory party or Corbyn considing his well oiled machine up to an election in the near future.

You expect that winning the EU referrendum will in some way disempower the eurosceptic right (who've just won the referendum) to the point where they'll lose their relevance and no longer be an electoral threat?

how does that work?

I'm genuinely baffled at some of the logic on display in this thread.

Realistically, either way their support does not dissipate readily. A Leave vote that doesn't tackle immigration and they scream betrayal and keep fighting. A Remain vote, that's within 10 points on high turn out -well that sounds similar to what happened to the SNP in Scotland....

Remain though, and UKIP maintains its principle source of funding (through the EU parliament) which it loses through Leave....

I also think UKIP will split. Nuttall takes over from Farage and they chase after the Labour heartlands. Farage postures about doing a Bepo Grillo type party at which stage I think the Tories will buy him off with a seat in Commons/Lords

 

[J Ed]

 

[brogdale]

Footie's started.

 

[J Ed]

Realistically, either way their support does not dissipate readily. A Leave vote that doesn't tackle immigration and they scream betrayal and keep fighting. A Remain vote, that's within 10 points on high turn out -well that sounds similar to what happened to the SNP in Scotland....

Remain though, and UKIP maintains its principle source of funding (through the EU parliament) which it loses through Leave....

I also think UKIP will split. Nuttall takes over from Farage and they chase after the Labour heartlands. Farage postures about doing a Bepo Grillo type party at which stage I think the Tories will buy him off with a seat in Commons/Lords

The plan seems to be to rebrand the party and introduce internal democracy through internet voting etc for members like with the Beppe Grillo party. Who knows, it might even work to an extent although there are only so many British gamergaters/Breitbart types who they could integrate into some kind of online platform. The obvious move that UKIP could make is to emulate Trump and the Front National and pitch to Labour voters by integrating anti-immigrant sentiment with a defence of the welfare state or similar. They already campaign on that basis in parts of the North, I think that their leadership is too ideologically committed to neoliberalism to sign off on that though.

 

[gosub]

The plan seems to be to rebrand the party and introduce internal democracy through internet voting etc for members like with the Beppe Grillo party. Who knows, it might even work to an extent although there are only so many British gamergaters/Breitbart types who they could integrate into some kind of online platform. The obvious move that UKIP could make is to emulate Trump and the Front National and pitch to Labour voters by integrating anti-immigrant sentiment with a defence of the welfare state or similar. They already campaign on that basis in parts of the North, I think that their leadership is too ideologically committed to neoliberalism to sign off on that though.

The Beppo Grillo is Farage's work around for an NEC thats losing faith in him. Thing earlier in one of the threads about Hamilton getting ready to support Nuttall leadership bid (think he would make more sense, if they to go after the Labour heartlands). Can't see Mr Farage hanging around if that happens...


ps the plan link is to poll tweet

 

[J Ed]

Corrected now

 

[coley]

well, I get no subsidy from the EU, which I thought was the question.

The EU's actually imposed trade tariffs that have raised the cost of chinese panel imports, but I suppose we benefit from having no tarriffs between us an Europe.

some in the industry do use cheap EU migrant workers on the big solar farms etc but not us.

My work isn't the reason I support EU membership directly, though indirectly the binding EU targets for renewables are about the only thing that's likely to stop the tories cutting all renewable support entirely. I was an environmentalist long before I started making a living installing solar panels.

I do fear the complete economic chaos that would ensue following an exit vote though, I doubt we'd survive it.

I have some sympathy for your position on a purely environmentalist platform, but look at Germany,which still has the dirtiest coal burning energy sector in The EU, it also has a steel and aluminium industry plus being the largest car manufacturer in the EU, I could go on, but do you see a pattern emerging?
ETA, I think there are many who fear an even bigger economic "chaos" in the EU if we leave, and they have their arses sitting in Berlin and Paris.
As for "survival" we managed to survive our turbulent departure from the ERM ( which we entered, courtesy of Remain stalwart John Major) and we remain relatively unscathed (compared to the poorer parts of the EU) after 2008 due to us not being in the EURO.
Which, if you would care to consider/remember, is that all of the heavyweight economists, think tanks, et al who told is we would be courting disaster by not joining the Euro are now telling us it will mean economic disaster if we leave the EU!
Forgive my cynicism, but self interest on the part of the " sneering elites" seems to be a major part of the 'remain' camp.

 

[coley]

Finally after 100+ pages someone relates the real tragedy that could unfold - 73 politicians might lose their jobs

73 politicians could lose their jobs? And that's a tragedy?
Fair enough, if the odd, very odd, decent politician loses their job, it would be a loss, but for most it would be a relief on the public purse!

 

[Sue]

I think binka was taking the piss...

 

[coley]

I think binka was taking the piss...

It's late, long day and half a bottle of lidls best white

 

[stethoscope]

Cameron this morning now warning on the dangers of exit to public finances and pensions. And that leaving the EU will create a 'lost decade'.

Well, the working class have had about 3 lost decades because of neoliberalism, cuts and austerity, loss of industry and privatisation, banking and financial improprietary.

What the fuck do you even know or care you privileged, rich Eton cunt?!

 

[J Ed]

Cameron this morning now warning on the dangers of exit to public finances and pensions. And that leaving the EU will create a 'lost decade'.

Well, the working class have had about 3 lost decades because of neoliberalism, cuts and austerity, loss of industry and privatisation, banking and financial improprietary.

What the fuck do you even know or care you privileged, rich Eton cunt?!

Yes, I think that they forget when they threaten us with a worse future that we have already resigned ourselves to that fact long ago.

 

[FiFi]

Cameron this morning now warning on the dangers of exit to public finances and pensions. And that leaving the EU will create a 'lost decade'.

Well, the working class have had about 3 lost decades because of neoliberalism, cuts and austerity, loss of industry and privatisation, banking and financial improprietary.

What the fuck do you even know or care you privileged, rich Eton cunt?!

The Bastards have already frozen my wages for more years than I can remember, AND reduced the value of my pension (as well as extending the date I can claim it by about 2 decades!)
I'm not expecting either side to improve things for me, just that one side will make things worse by sending home all my EU nursing colleagues that have arrived in the last decade.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

sending home all my EU nursing colleagues that have arrived in the last decade.

This is not going to happen, ffs! Why do people keep saying this shit?

 

[FiFi]

This is not going to happen, ffs! Why do people keep saying this shit?

Because we've been told it will by campaigners!
You must admit it's getting difficult for those of us with even a passing interest in politics to know what is true and what isn't?

Also, isn't there a pay rate at which people ARE to be sent home. If it is to be set at £30.000 + it will mean the majority of Nurses are included because Nurse on Band 5, and the majority on Band 6 earn below this. The only Nurses allowed to remain in the country would be at Senior practitioner level (Ward leader and above) and Nurse Managers.
So, maybe not all, but certainly the vast majority, especially those you will interact with on a day-to-day basis on the ward and clinics

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Because we've been told it will by campaigners!

Name them.

Also, isn't there a pay rate at which people ARE to be sent home.

No.

 

[FiFi]

Name them.



No.

Well, I'm glad about that. I don't think our wards could function with even fewer Nurses!

 

[two sheds]

No.

?

From 6 April all skilled workers from outside the EU who have been living here for less than 10 years will need to earn at least £35,000 a year to settle permanently in the UK. Some jobs, such as nurses, are exempt (see How the rules are changing, right) but Frazier’s is not. Unless she gets a higher-paid job, she will be deported in September.

The non-EU workers who’ll be deported for earning less than £35,000

doesn't apply to nurses, but people are being sent home as Fifi said surely.