Too many immigration threads on UK P&P?

[tbaldwin]

True socialism is internationalist and real socialism does not equal authoritarianism. And who is this "majority" that you speak of? Do you speak for 'them'?

I agree Socialism is Internationalist.

Which is why i'm constantly suprised by how people whoi claim to be Socialists overlook the consequences of economic migration.

Real Socialism to me means the majority taking power from the minority.
In othe words authority would move from the minority to the majority.

Do i speak for the majority of people?
No, i just voice my views.

 

[Fruitloop]

Or 'talk a load of crap', as it's also known.

 

[tbaldwin]

Exactly and like the paedophilia campaign orchestrated by the press a few years ago, this current anti-immigration campaign is a "top down" movement.

That is typical of your politics.

If only more people were as clever as you eh nino....
Then they could all stop worrying about child molesters and immigration.

 

[tbaldwin]

Disregarding the question of what it is, precisely, that sets nino apart from the "ordinary people", are you actually that naive that you believe that the media doesn't shape people's perceptions of reality at all?

No. I think they do have an influence but to exaggerate that influence is no way to combat it.

 

[nino_savatte]

That is typical of your politics.

If only more people were as clever as you eh nino....
Then they could all stop worrying about child molesters and immigration.

"Typical of my politics"? Hell, baldy, you make up my politics for me. If only life was always so simple -eh? You still have no reply to my point that, like the anti-paedophilia campaign, the anti-immigration campaign is a top down 'movement' led by the press. All you can do is smear me. Pathetic.

 

[tbaldwin]

Its not a top down movement.
The media would not stay in business for long if they did not at least try and reflect the concerns of people. It's very convenient for you to try and pretend that its all the medias fault.

 

[nino_savatte]

Its not a top down movement.
The media would not stay in business for long if they did not at least try and reflect the concerns of people. It's very convenient for you to try and pretend that its all the medias fault.

A couple of things: you wouldn't admit to it even if it came up and kicked you in the face. You live in denial. Secondly, you cannot provide a decent counter-argument to support your contention...or to debunk my argument. All I need to do is to pick up a paper and I will see, in its pages, an article or two about immigration. Are you telling me that isn't the case?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do i speak for the majority of people?
No, i just voice my views.

Really?

Why then is there the constant insertion of phrases like "most people think..." or "the majority of people want..." in your diatribes, eh?

 

[tbaldwin]

A couple of things: you wouldn't admit to it even if it came up and kicked you in the face. You live in denial. Secondly, you cannot provide a decent counter-argument to support your contention...or to debunk my argument. All I need to do is to pick up a paper and I will see, in its pages, an article or two about immigration. Are you telling me that isn't the case?

No...
The press are picking on an issue that they know is of interest....Yes they feed it....But no they did not create it all.

Have you noticed how many Immigrants are handing out the London Paper and London Lite.

The Mail and Murdoch are every bit as Hypocritical as you nino.

 

[tbaldwin]

Really?

Why then is there the constant insertion of phrases like "most people think..." or "the majority of people want..." in your diatribes, eh?

Cos i reckon what most people think is fairly important.

Of course some people think that what is most important is what clever people think....
But i disagree with them.....Is that OK?

 

[nino_savatte]

No...
The press are picking on an issue that they know is of interest....Yes they feed it....But no they did not create it all.

Have you noticed how many Immigrants are handing out the London Paper and London Lite.

The Mail and Murdoch are every bit as Hypocritical as you nino.

"Immigrants" handing out free newspapers are the very same people papers liek the Mail and the Murdoch press write about. Pillock.

You still haven't managed to provide a proper rebuttal to my point that, like so many other moral panics, this is another that has been led by the press.

 

[Pigeon]

Of course some people think that what is most important is what clever people think....
But i disagree with them.....Is that OK?

Oh, you do, you do...

 

[tbaldwin]

Nino how can i have a proper rebuttal for what is a view?

You didnt understand the point about London Paper and London Lite did you?

 

[geeta]

That's a good question. I think a lot of threads started on immigration tend to be carefully worded so as not to lead one to suspect the true motives of the thread-starter. However when one gets close to the truth, the thread-starter (and their mates) will either hurl abuse or try to evade the points put to them.

Behind these threads lies the ugly face of racism.

So your trying to say that people who disagree with you on this issue are racist? Can you help by explaining why you think thats the case? And who exactly these racists are?

 

[Pigeon]

Nino how can i have a proper rebuttal for what is a view?

You're surely not asking him to provide evidence to back it up?

We all know how statistics are meaningless.

 

[tbaldwin]

You're surely not asking him to provide evidence to back it up?

We all know how statistics are meaningless.

No i'm not asking him for evidence for his views. Im just pointing out their shit....

 

[geeta]

No i'm not asking him for evidence for his views. Im just pointing out their shit....

Racist.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I definitely think there are too many immigration threads here. Some kind of quota may be appropriate. And maybe an advertising campaign to prevent people starting them. And ID cards.

 

[Pigeon]

Racist.

Ironically, baldies' replies don't mark him to be a racist.

But they do mark him to be a stupid fucker, just as I prophesied!

 

[nino_savatte]

No i'm not asking him for evidence for his views. Im just pointing out their shit....

Oh, the irony!

 

[nino_savatte]

So your trying to say that people who disagree with you on this issue are racist? Can you help by explaining why you think thats the case? And who exactly these racists are?

No, that isn't what I'm saying at all, but to say "that people who disagree with you on this issue are racist" is using the same argument they use when their arguments on the subject are challenged. In baldwin's case he would much rather sit and label me a "Liberal" or a "Tory" rather than deal with any points put to him.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino how can i have a proper rebuttal for what is a view?

You didnt understand the point about London Paper and London Lite did you?

This sums you up entirely. You aren't here to dicuss anything rationally and when it is put to you that your argument (like the example of people handing out free papers) is specious, you resort to "I don't know what you're talking about" or "you're a Tory". Not very good, balderdash but then you're the King of Evasion.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Cos i reckon what most people think is fairly important.

Of course some people think that what is most important is what clever people think....
But i disagree with them.....Is that OK?

As usual you're totally contradicting yourself.

You said:

"Do i speak for the majority of people?
No, i just voice my views."

Now to me that looks like you're saying you ONLY speak for yourself.

In which case why are you using the phrases ""most people think..." or "the majority of people want..." ?

Because if you use them you're not speaking ONLY for yourself, are you?

You're presuming to speak for "most people" and "the majoriity of people".

Do you really believe you're that important that you can presume to speak for other people (people whose views you haven't solicited, you soi-disant "I'm a majoritarian, lets put everything to the vote" socialist)?

I think your degree of presumption in speaking for "most people" without finding out their views is pretty despicable, and no amount of smarmy, smearing remarks about how people think they're cleverer than you will dig you out of this particular shit-heap you've dug yourself into.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ironically, baldies' replies don't mark him to be a racist.

But they do mark him to be a stupid fucker, just as I prophesied!

Don't worry, it's pillow talk. Balders' g/f has come along to try and help him dig himself out of the hole he's in. bless.

 

[chilango]

its about white left wing middle class kids putting those from poorer backgrounds down.Same as the neocons methinks.

 

[nino_savatte]

Don't worry, it's pillow talk. Balders' g/f has come along to try and help him dig himself out of the hole he's in. bless.

"Balder's g/f"...now it all makes sense. She sort of popped up (like the shopkeeper in Mr Benn) when baldy was getting into a bit of bother.

 

[chilango]

Incidentally...

...I`m not at all interested in the personal spats going on...just waiting patiently for treelover, tbaldwin etc. to turn their concerns into a cogent argument.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Incidentally...

...I`m not at all interested in the personal spats going on...just waiting patiently for treelover, tbaldwin etc. to turn their concerns into a cogent argument.

Hasn't happened yet.

 

[tbaldwin]

I think your degree of presumption in speaking for "most people" without finding out their views is pretty despicable, and no amount of smarmy, smearing remarks about how people think they're cleverer than you will dig you out of this particular shit-heap you've dug yourself into.

We really should do stand up. I say most people think the worlds round....You say how dare you be so presumptious, have you asked them......
Good stuff VP....

 

[nino_savatte]

I see none of the anti-immigrationists have effectively dealt with the point about the concept of the nation-state and how it relates to so-called "economic migration" and how, also, some nation-states have been economically dominated by forces outside their borders.