The status of terms 'people of colour' and BIPOC in the UK

[Brainaddict]

This arises from a purely practical issue where I'm writing about what might previously have been described as BAME groups, and I'm only interested in practical responses that aren't rants against 'identity politics' or whatever. During the Black Lives Matter movement the term 'people of colour' seemed to leap across the Atlantic from the US and suddenly it was the term every self-respecting activist used. Along with BIPOC, Black Indigenous (and) People of Colour. Now a couple of years have passed and I don't hear or read the terms used so much. My sense is there has been some pushback from British 'people of colour', who haven't been universally delighted with the term. But I feel like I've lost track of what the debate has been (partly due to life circumstances), and I don't really know if activists have hit on a better phrase yet (BAME is a bit crap, if a safe fallback in official documents). And I wonder if I've missed any interesting essays or articles about it, and also whether if I use the term 'people of colour' it's going to look passe in five years time. Any thoughts? What terminology do you use (maybe state whether you are using it for your own group or other people), and what debates have you heard about it recently?

 

[cesare]

You might find this helpful:

A guide to race and ethnicity terminology and language

There are a significant number of words, phrases and acronyms that appear when talking about race and ethnicity which often change depending on the context of the conversation.

www.lawsociety.org.uk

 

[krtek a houby]

People of colour, black, brown, mixed race, bi-racial, bame... whatever someone who is the above prefers.

Anything but "non white '.

 

[Brainaddict]

People of colour, black, brown, mixed race, bi-racial, bame... whatever someone who is the above prefers.

Lots of situations where you can't ask.

 

[8ball]

Would have thought BIPOC would be an America/Australia thing. Unless you're including the Welsh.

Anything but "non white '.

Will make a mental note...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

People of colour, black, brown, mixed race, bi-racial, bame... whatever someone who is the above prefers.

Anything but "non white '.

I thought “coloured” was also a no no?

 

[8ball]

I thought “coloured” was also a no no?

Well, there are obv other no-no's.
Bit generational, that one, anyway.

 

[PTK]

Well, there are obv other no-no's.

Hence, the oldest civil rights organisation in the USA is called the NAACP.

 

[8ball]

Hence, the oldest civil rights organisation in the USA is called the NAACP.

Whichever term is used (not that anyone is recommending that one), I don't think Brainaddict can ever be totally confident that it won't look clunky to readers in some years time.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think BAME has also fallen out of fashion as it’s too big an umbrella term.

 

[Serge Forward]

Hence, the oldest civil rights organisation in the USA is called the NAACP.

I believe the continued use of "coloured" in the NAACP is for historic reasons, it being the oldest such organisation. I think it's the only instance where the use of "coloured" is accepted.

BIPOC simply doesn't relate to the situation in the UK because there are no "first nations" people here. Unless they moved here from somewhere else.

I don't know what the prefered term is these days. I've only ever heard POC used by North Americans, or those heavily influenced by North American academics or social movements. I've never heard any of the black or Asian people I know use the expression "People of Colour" but they do often say Black or Asian. For now, I use "Black and Minority Ethnic people" but never just the acronym BAME. It's a bit of a mouthful but if I'm told it's old hat, I'll take note.

 

[TopCat]

People who I know generally refer to themselves as black brown or Asian. BAME would get puzzled looks. People of colour, derision.

 

[hegley]

Oxfam published a guide at the beginning of the year which you can download.

 

[Spymaster]

People who I know generally refer to themselves as black brown or Asian. BAME would get puzzled looks. People of colour, derision.

Yep. Asian here. I used to use 'black' but got told-off on here for not being proper black, so it's asian, if anything.

I don't know many (any?) black or asian people who actually care, as long as whoever is saying it isn't being intentionally disrepectful.

This is a white folk thing!

 

[8ball]

Yep. Asian here. I used to use 'black' but got told off on here for not being proper black, so it's asian, if anything.

A half-Welsh, half-Asian mate of mine used to go with "swarthy", which is a term I haven't heard in quite some time.

 

[Serge Forward]

Oxfam published a guide at the beginning of the year which you can download.

That's fair enough but I've not downloaded it. I might have a look later, but to be honest, when such things come down from HR departments, governmental and non-governmental organisations, business corporations and academia, then I'm less likely to take notice but would rather defer to the black, brown and asian people I know.

 

[krtek a houby]

I thought “coloured” was also a no no?

Tbh, most times I've heard it used is by white South Africans and not so long ago, either.

 

[Spymaster]

"Coloured" seemed to be the most common (inoffensively intended) term used in the 70s and 80s in the the UK.

At the time it was considered by many to be less offensive than "black" and used mainly by people who were trying to be progressive, my mother included.

 

[krtek a houby]

"Coloured" seemed to be the most common (inoffensively intended) term used in the 70s and 80s in the the UK.

At the time it was considered to be less offensive than "black" and used mainly by people who were trying to be progressive, my mother included.

Still hear (albeit rarely) the occasional person use the term "half caste".

 

[TopCat]

Still hear (albeit rarely) the occasional person use the term "half caste".

Fighting talk

 

[Spymaster]

Still hear (albeit rarely) the occasional person use the term "half caste".

Yeah. Don't think I've ever heard that used in a non-malevolent context.

 

[krtek a houby]

Fighting talk

Would hear it in 80s/90s Dublin.

A few times in London up until left and once over this part of the world. Colleague in London used it, not realising it's not on. They also tended to describe black Londoners as "West Indian". Believe it or not, he was genuinely surprised when pointed out to him that the terms weren't acceptable, or correct in the latter case. He's in his late 60s now.

Last time heard the former was just a few years ago by a mate in his 30s. He did ask if he was using the correct term.

 

[8ball]

Yeah. Don't think I've ever heard that used in a non-malevolent context.

I have, but not for a while.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yep. Asian here. I used to use 'black' but got told-off on here for not being proper black, so it's asian, if anything.

Aye, back in our youth it was a political statement. British Asians were politically black. It was an all-inclusive term in Britain for people from immigrant communities and heritage facing racism. The move to eject you from that identity was a turning point, when anti racism started to be not about fighting inequality but about fighting for difference. But the OP asked that we not go there, so I won’t go into that. The issue I’m highlighting is that at one point it was your preferred term but others excluded you from it.

The link cesare posted is a good discussion, though I share Serge Forward ’s suspicion of “official” papers on the matter.

The general advice though must be: listen, learn and try not to be a dick.

 

[belboid]

Tbh, most times I've heard it used is by white South Africans and not so long ago, either.

white South Africans use it differently though.

I used to live with a couple, in one dreadful house share, and one day one of the other sharers - Labour voter but not very political - asked if they had had (you could almost see his brain whirring, trying to work out the appropriate word as he knew the Saffa would not be very right on) coloured servants.

"Oh no" came the shocked reply, "we had blacks for that."

 

[Sue]

"Coloured" seemed to be the most common (inoffensively intended) term used in the 70s and 80s in the the UK.

At the time it was considered to be less offensive than "black" and used mainly by people who were trying to be progressive, my mother included.

Yes, my mum too. I remember saying she should use black instead but for her, that was rude and coloured was the polite term. (Not that there was much call for either term at that point in small-town Scotland.)

I did ask a black friend at the time if she'd find it offensive and her response was that she didn't specially like the term but in context -- someone older who was obviously not using it maliciously -- it was fine.

 

[Sue]

Yeah. Don't think I've ever heard that used in a non-malevolent context.

I know a Jamaican woman with mixed race kids who used to call them half-castes but I've never heard anyone else use it like that...

 

[cesare]

That's fair enough but I've not downloaded it. I might have a look later, but to be honest, when such things come down from HR departments, governmental and non-governmental organisations, business corporations and academia, then I'm less likely to take notice but would rather defer to the black, brown and asian people I know.

I definitely agree you'd want to know the provenance of any guidance including what kind of research had been done, involving how many, in which geographical areas and which classes had been sampled for their views together with an indication of what %age of the population that was etc etc.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i'm not sure i have many circumstances to use a generic term.

'ethnic minorities' was standard at one time, although personally think 'people from...' is a bit better (see also 'disabled people' / 'the disabled') and I'd thought that 'BAME' was still the current 'official' term although it's a bit meh.

i'd seen BIPOC now and then, but not enough to see what it stood for - would agree that it's potentially appropriate in the USA and maybe australia (and so on) but doesn't really work in europe.

from my (white) perspective, i'd not think it right to use 'black' as a generic term for everyone who's not white.

i've also encountered a few (mainly older, reasonably well meaning but slightly clueless) people who think that saying 'black' is either not polite or 'not allowed' - not sure it's ever been impolite, unless followed by a rude word.

 

[danny la rouge]

i'm not sure i have many circumstances to use a generic term.

'ethnic minorities' was standard at one time, although personally think 'people from...' is a bit better (see also 'disabled people' / 'the disabled')

As a person with disabilities I like the “people first” idea: it’s not disability that defines us, it’s personhood. But I’m out of touch with disability activism these days and can’t tell you contemporary trends.

and I'd thought that 'BAME' was still the current 'official' term although it's a bit meh.

i'd seen BIPOC now and then, but not enough to see what it stood for - would agree that it's potentially appropriate in the USA and maybe australia (and so on) but doesn't really work in europe.

from my (white) perspective, i'd not think it right to use 'black' as a generic term for everyone who's not white.

The idea is that race is a result of racism, not the other way around. “Black” and “white” are social constructs. “Whiteness” has changed over time too. (Are Italians and Irish included now? They weren’t always. And so on.)

Really good book which goes into this better than I could is Racecraft by the Fields sisters.