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The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

How's that worked out then?

You lot have been slagging off the right for over 20 years. Calling them names like Vermin, Fuhrage, Stammer, Refuck etc etc, and few people can name a left wing politician other than perhaps the outrageously successful Jeremy Corbyn, who's been forgotten, or perhaps George Galloway, who is universally considered a cunt.

Meanwhile Farage has built a party in the last 5 years that has become bigger in membership terms than the Tories, and polled 100 candidates 2nd to Labour in a General Election.
The fact that the so-called Left (I'd challenge whether much of this stuff actually come from the Left though) has been shit at ridicule, doesn't rule out ridicule as a tool.

The Left (and the politically illiterate liberals you seem to be lumping in with them) have been shit at using every tool. Maybe it's not the choice of tool that's at fault?
 
Reform are undoubtably going to be a significant political force (even more than they are so at the moment) but France does show some of the challenges they will face.
Trump had the advantage of taking over the Republican Party, and with it its base and infrastructure, that is not going to be the case for Reform which in is a situation more analogous to the RN.

And while the right populist vote is growing there is, and will be, a very significant anti-populist vote too - that has benefitted Macron, and now the NPF - and I think would benefit Labour here. For a lot it is a very different thing to not vote Labour when a Labour government is a near certainty than when there is a chance of Reform taking a seat.
I think the 'vote to keep out the fascist' is a bad long term strategy that has helped the hard right to grow but it would be naive to deny it has has some sort of short/medium term success for the established parties. To win a plurality of seats, let alone a majority is going to be very tough.

A second challenge that I do think Reform have is that they are very much built around Farage. That is something that may change but if he fell in front of a bus tomorrow then the wheels come could off the whole thing - as they did with UKIP after Farage left.
 
if Vote to keep a fascist out worked .. trump would be looking at going to jail in the new year not the white house ..
 
this election was the one were any pretence of maga being anything but a racist bunch of shithawks was embraced and people picked cheaper eggs

Reform is going to attempt to use the same tactic as trump to run the election here even dragging musk along for the ride..

also not voting alongside farrage and ukip because they are a butch or racist pricks did wonders during the brexit campaign

also see Boris Johnson remarks over the years
 
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this election was the one were any pretence of maga being anything but a racist bunch of shithawks was embraced and people picked cheaper eggs

Reform is going to attempt to use the same tactic as trump to run the election here even dragging musk along for the ride..

also he don't vole alongside farrage and ukip because they are a butch or racist pricks did wonders during the brexit campaign

also see Boris Johnson remarks over the years

Do the italics mean this is a quite from somewhere?
 
All this talk of polls and numbers of people on the ground…

You did all just see what happened in the USA, yeah :confused:

The Reform threat is very, very real. The world is marching ever further towards right wing populism. Anyone thinking Farage hasn’t got a shot of being PM in 4.5 years time is in total denial of a glaringly obvious reality.

It's interesting to see that some still have the "it couldn't happen here" vibe.

As an outsider, it certainly looks grimmer now. Don't see the Tories recovering from their slump, but the rise of Reform is astonishing. In a worrying way.
 
It's interesting to see that some still have the "it couldn't happen here" vibe.

As an outsider, it certainly looks grimmer now. Don't see the Tories recovering from their slump, but the rise of Reform is astonishing. In a worrying way.
Yebbut, don't start writing the vermin's obituary yet; even in this 'high-water mark' (so far) refUKer polling, the tories projected seat tally was 222 compared to their 121 in July's GE. And, though it's hard to argue that the refUKers are on the rise, and quickly gaining ground, it may be that we're seeing them quickly peak at a point that is far too early in the Parliamentary cycle. Finally, one thing that even the best MRP polling projection struggles with is the 'joker' of tactical voting change; who knows how LD/Green voters etc. might react if faced with a Falangist victory in their constituency.
 
Do they?
I see posters pointing out the real challenges and hurdles that Reform would have to getting into government in 2029. That is not the same as saying the hard right are not a problem or will definitely not get into power in the future.
Also what myself and some others are saying is that the hard right challenge is more likely to come from within the Tory party than outside it. Just as with Trump in the US. It's odd that people seem to forget he wss the Republican candidate. I think the electoral collage and the FPTP system both favour the established parties and makes it less likely for the hard righ to come into power with new party.
 
Do they?
I see posters pointing out the real challenges and hurdles that Reform would have to getting into government in 2029. That is not the same as saying the hard right are not a problem or will definitely not get into power in the future.

I doubt there would be much opposition within the present Tory party members to welcoming Farage back in. If polling figures over the next 2 years show Reform beating the Tories, Farage will be leader of the Tories before the next election.
 
Usual caveats about politicians relationship with the truth and how much time to go before we get to the next GE results, but those confidently seeing a vermin/refUKer lash-up will notice what the current refUKer party chair said in response to Hannan's Torygraph piece calling for a "pact" between the parties:

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I doubt there would be much opposition within the present Tory party members to welcoming Farage back in. If polling figures over the next 2 years show Reform beating the Tories, Farage will be leader of the Tories before the next election.
See brogdale 's post - there is already a good deal of bad blood on both sides and if the two parties are increasingly fighting over the same ground those tensions are likely to grow.
A proportion of Tory members may be willing to have Farage in the party but there would be a lot of pushback from the top. And on his side I'm skeptical that Farage would want to be back in a party (even as leader) where he isn't the only big fish and can't control things as he wants.

I think a Tory leader borrowing from the Reform playbook and/or some sort of alliance (formal or informal) are far more likely than Farage becoming leader of the Conservatives (and a merger of Reform and the Tories).
 
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See brogdale 's post - there is already a good deal of bad blood on both sides and if the two parties are increasingly fighting over the same ground those tensions are likely to grow.
A proportion of Tory members may be willing to have Farage in the party but there would be a lot of pushback from the top. And on his side I'm skeptical that Farage would want to be back in a party (even as leader) where he isn't the only big fish and can't control things as he wants.

I think a Troy leader borrowing from the Reform playbook and/or some sort of alliance (formal or informal) are far more likely than Farage becoming leader of the Conservatives (and personably a merger of Reform and the Tories).
The Man of The PayPal will never be willing to play second fiddle to anyone.
 
I fear it is already fairly clear that Reform will be setting the agenda at the next election. We have a Labour Party in power whose only offering at the moment appears to be heavy doses of bad medicine for the country's long-term good. Whatever the merits, or lack of them, of that approach we are likely - unless Labour can suddenly offer something that changes the public mood before then - to be heading into the next election with a disgruntled, volatile electorate. That situation will be ripe for Reform to give people the usual scapegoats they are looking for - small boats crossings, grooming gangs, other crimes committed by immigrants, knife crime in London (a disproportionate amount of which involves young black men) etc etc. Because Reform already has MPs in Parliament it will also have greater legitimacy in the public's eyes compared to last time when it was seen as something of an outsider. In terms of the Tories' part in this, if there is a merger we are going to see a re-energised populist Tory Party - a rebirth akin to the Republicans under Trump - ready to ditch any remaining shackles of decency and appeal to people's base instincts. If the Tories and Reform remain separate then I think Badenoch, who was foolish to get dragged into the membership debate, will continue to play into their hands. Whatever populist anti-immigration stance she might adopt is more likely to cast the spotlight on Reform who can claim "this is our agenda, don't believe them, they've let you down before... if you want the real deal come to us". The whole powder keg makes me fear for the future.
 
This guy actually thinks Johnson is a communist? Does he know what communism is? Because Johnson is very much not a commie.
One of our local, very vocal, Reform cheerleaders has long maintained that Johnson is a socialist. He also thinks Hitler was (National Socialist innit?). Starmer is left wing. Global warming is a scam. So too the Covid virus and vaccine. The British Empire was the best thing since sliced bread. Once you decide that logic no longer matters, that facts are completely malleable, that the world is controlled by multiple conspiracies - if you think all that then you can believe all manner of contradictory claptrap.
 
The British Empire was the best thing since sliced bread.

I occasionally dip a toe into the cesspit that is the comments section of certain newspapers to see what the nutters are saying. The Fail had a story the other day on the crime problems in Trinidad and Tobago and nearly every other comment was basically "this is what happens without the British Empire". Never underestimate how many arseholes are out there.
 
This guy actually thinks Johnson is a communist? Does he know what communism is? Because Johnson is very much not a commie.
No, he - whoever he is - believes Johnson “unleashed a Molotov cocktail of communism and open borders”. Which means he thinks Boris’ Brexit settlement wasn’t Brexity enough. Not “the Brexit we voted for”.
 
No, he - whoever he is - believes Johnson “unleashed a Molotov cocktail of communism and open borders”. Which means he thinks Boris’ Brexit settlement wasn’t Brexity enough. Not “the Brexit we voted for”.
Yep, those credulous folk persuaded that Brexit was some act of nationalist independence were always going to feel betrayed by the reality. Of course, these folk form a key component of the support herded by Farage.
 
Yep, those credulous folk persuaded that Brexit was some act of nationalist independence were always going to feel betrayed by the reality. Of course, these folk form a key component of the support herded by Farage.

The saddest thing is that they still don't see they were taken for a ride. They've now swallowed the line that 'their Brexit' was betrayed by the establishment... of which Farage is definitely not a part of, ahem.
 
No, he - whoever he is - believes Johnson “unleashed a Molotov cocktail of communism and open borders”. Which means he thinks Boris’ Brexit settlement wasn’t Brexity enough. Not “the Brexit we voted for”.
He's the Reform chair. Tommy Robinson and others shat their pants about him because he's Muslim.
 
I'm probably just using this thread out of convenience but I cant find anywhere else to put this.

Very readable article in the FT which looks at how globally 'the centre cannot hold' and the rise of populism. I'm particularly taken by the suggestion 'that people who grow up against a backdrop of weaker economic growth and less progress between generations are more likely to view the world as zero sum, where one person’s gain must come at someone else’s cost'

 
unless Labour can suddenly offer something that changes the public mood before then
They're pretty much hostage to fortune as far as Reform-as-rivals is concerned. Farage's offering is heavily based on reducing immigration, which is entirely dependent on global events. They may be significantly helped, or hindered, by the fall of Assad, for example. We're seeing this to a degree with the far-right parties which have risen and falled thus far - whatever they say about "getting tough" the reality is their levers are limited unless they want to go fully murderous, which none of them quite feel able to do (as yet).
 
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