The Lefts reaction to hurricane Katrina

[Pickman's model]

Those with unresponsive, unelected governments. Examples would be most of the Middle East and Africa.

what about unresponsive elected governments?

 

[Jo/Joe]

Those with unresponsive, unelected governments. Examples would be most of the Middle East and Africa.

If a civilised nation is closely allied to an uncivilised nation, can the civilisaed nation really call itself civilised?

 

[Jo/Joe]

what about unresponsive elected governments?

Can you think of any off the top of your head PM?

 

[mears]

If a civilised nation is closely allied to an uncivilised nation, can the civilisaed nation really call itself civilised?

Like Chirac's relationship with Saddam or the EU's with uzbekistan?

Of course you were not thinking of that, silly me, no time for that.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Hopefully we will never know. But around a million refugees created in less than a week.

Not too many civilised countries ever have to deal with that

No, and I don't think there would be any surprise at a few problems and snafus.

The problem is that we saw those poor people, left there because they had no car, no credit card, no place to go. We saw them dying in the streets.

Are they citizens, like you and like George Bush? Do people without valid credit cards have any right to expect their society to make provision for them in an entirely predictable disaster? Most people in Old Europe think they do.

 

[Jo/Joe]

If a civilised nation is closely allied to an uncivilised nation, can the civilisaed nation really call itself civilised?

Come on Mears, answer the question. I think it's actually a good one.

 

[nino_savatte]

Mears, you just don't get it: the USA's claim to moral authority vis a vis the world stage has gone down the toilet. The images of the aftermath of Katrina that were flashed around the globe have exposed America's dirty little secret. Not even a hardened Randist like you can defend the initial inertia of the Federal response nor Bush's casual attitude to the crisis, but I know you will try.

 

[sihhi]

Hopefully we will never know. But around a million refugees created in less than a week.

Not too many civilised countries ever have to deal with that

But most of them had escaped before the hurricane came.
About 200,000 were stuck in New Orleans primarily because they were too poor and there was no genuine organised evacuation attempt pre-level 5 hurricane Katrina. You know all of this but are utterly incapable of speaking against the effects of US socio-economic system.


That also is utter nonsense the cyclone storms in Orissa India in 1999 for example more than 1.5 million homeless refugees, more than 10,000 dying as a result.
Or is India not a civilised country?

 

[Ryazan]

University lefty types are one thing. Being poor and working class is another.

 

[mears]

But most of them had escaped before the hurricane came.
About 200,000 were stuck in New Orleans primarily because they were too poor and there was no genuine organised evacuation attempt pre-level 5 hurricane Katrina. You know all of this but are utterly incapable of speaking against the effects of US socio-economic system.


That also is utter nonsense the cyclone storms in Orissa India in 1999 for example more than 1.5 million homeless refugees, more than 10,000 dying as a result.
Or is India not a civilised country?

It could have been done better, no doubt. Putting all those people in the Superdome and not getting some of them out of the city was terrible.

I'm sure mistakes were made in the Indian cyclone you referenced.

I can speak against my countries system when I see fit. For instance state government in Louisiana is corrupt and ineffecient, on of the reasons the poverty level is so high in the state.

If you want me to apaologize for the high standard of living in America, or that millions of people dream of coming to my country, or that we are the only super power standing, I will not however.

 

[mears]

University lefty types are one thing. Being poor and working class is another.

Thats why I want to give poor people in my country choice on education by funding private school vouchers. That is why I want private pension accounts, so they have their own wealth and don't need to depend on some government entity.

 

[fishfingerer]

Mears is the worst kind of loony nationalist.

 

[Ryazan]

Inproved funding on public education. the better redistribution of wealth. the introduction of a comprehensive healthcare system paid through taxation.

The liquidation of the middle classes is too much to ask, but you know....

 

[sihhi]

I can speak against my countries system when I see fit. For instance state government in Louisiana is corrupt and ineffecient, on of the reasons the poverty level is so high in the state.

You really have some nerve. Does the federal government not play a part in this?
Did Reagan's programmes of the 1980s not exacerbate inequalities in New Orleans, Chicago and elsewhere? Have GW Bush's policies helped or hindered poverty in Louisiana?
Look at Bernie's statistics on this thread:-

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=128724

 

[exleper]

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[exleper]

 

[herman]

Interesting article on Cuba and hurricanes:

http://freeinternetpress.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4430


"The tiny country of Cuba endured a category 4 storm on July 5 of this year. They evacuated 600,000 people, and suffered only 10 deaths in the storm. When hit by category 5 hurricane, Ivan, in 2004, Cuba evacuated 1.9 million people from vulnerable areas prior to the storm. No Cubans died as a result of the storm.

Cuba's citizens, organized by neighborhood and given civil defense education training, were evacuated with their local medical care providers, so persons needing medical care were known to their doctors and received special assistance and medications. The Cuban government also evacuated residents' TV sets, refrigerators and other valuable items, so no one would remain in a dangerous place for fear of looting. "

 

[Jo/Joe]

Perhaps George needs to ask Fidel for tips.

 

[herman]

Perhaps George needs to ask Fidel for tips.

Indeed he does. After all disaster avoidance or management requires a planned approach, but of course any nation that sees the market as the answer would reject any notion of planning. After all the argument runs that the market is the most efficient way of linking consumers with products.

In this particular instance however we are generally discussing how a crisis predominantly affected those who as the poorest in society were already on the margins of the system.

The market of course functioned properly in this instance with those who could afford to leave New Orleans on the whole doing so. It is in cases like this that the survival of the fittest nature of the capitalist system comes into sharp focus.

Cuba employs a high degree of planning in many spheres of political and economic life. That this approach is correct can be illustrated with :

"When hit by category 5 hurricane, Ivan, in 2004, Cuba evacuated 1.9 million people from vulnerable areas prior to the storm. No Cubans died as a result of the storm."

For me it says much.

I will however be heeding one aspect of George Bush's advice however and when I get paid at the end of the week will be making a donation to the Red Cross who have the hard job of picking up the pieces of shattered lives of a people betrayed by free market ideologues.

 

[rocketman]

"Every day they said, the cavalry is coming, every day. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday...it's only today I can hear the hooves - they still ain't here yet."
president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, Aaron Broussard says how federal and national government let the people down.
As said on MSNBC - I will find the link now,

http://podcast.msnbc.com/audio/podc...2005-081727.mp3

You put up with some BS from the FEMUR geezer (where was he in the last few days?) first, then you will find yourselves - left, right, or centre, completely crushed by what follows.
A human disaster. Heads must roll. And the 1,700 police dealing with such a disaster in a city if half a million are not the bad guys. They were victims too. This is federal or national level disgrace.

 

[JoMo1953]

Thing is dear bushbots, the big difference between you guys and the rest of the world is that the Left has at least had a reaction to Katrina.
Unfortunately in the US it's the right that has the power, so the left's reaction has been limited in it's immediate effect,
So while you make excuses for your ruling elite's lack of action, the left is galvanised to act. Yes, the left hasn't presently got the political power to act, but now above all other existing reasons the right wing has messed up so badky that leftward leaning forces across the planet finally have one common moment to galvanise into action.
At least we had a reaction. You did not. I pray to all the gods that the left across the planet now takes you abject failures of humanity to task. It may take time, but so what?
Your hegemony is tattered and torn; you have sacrificed your consent and created dissonance and anger within your media. You have failed to such an extent that the ugliness inherent in your global vision is exposed, and now judged is found wanting on a global scale.
How can America be a good country to do business with, when you cannot trust the country to guard your back? A failure to meet the social compact you had with the victims in this disaster shows that your country does not and cannot match its responsibilities, meet its promises.
You have failed.
Now watch the left react - because in my mind your compliance in allowing such a slow response to happen effectively means that all you Bushbots have blood on your hands.
I pray once again for a new America, a better America, an America in which people are not judged by wealth, status, sex, sexuality, race, religion or skin tone.
An America where equal opportuinity and social mobility can happen. A compassionate America capable of offering more than lip service to its vulnerable, its poor, it's needy.
An America dedicated to finding peace through peace across the planet as a good, equal, reasonable global citizen.
An America that values its children enough to tackle the very real threats we are leaving them with, global warming, world peace and more.
An America that puts down its swords ti take up the ploughshares.
An America that turns its back on the phrase "America at War", and instead embraces the notion of "A world at peace".
To all the gods I beg for this new era.

So do I Rocketman, so do I.........and I'm an American

And to my fellow Americans PB and Mears....shame on both of you, PBman you want to "Piss on My Grave" as you so eloquently put it in another thread we'll bring it on...but you better come prepared because the "left-wing" as you choose to describe us are coming out of the woodwork and we've had enough! Our Government has failed, failed miserably and the WORLD is watching. Mears and PBman hang your heads in shame, humble yourselves and admit it!!! And I don't just blame Bush for this mess, all the politicians are to blame, the whole political machine has gone bad.......

We have become a nation of corporate greed, chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of anyone that might be in our way. Personally, I don't want to live that way and I can only hope that more Americans like me feel the same way....so get ready Mears and PBman the "left-wingers" are coming!

 

[MightyAphrodite]

And to my fellow Americans PB and Mears....shame on both of you, PBman you want to "Piss on My Grave" as you so eloquently put it in another thread we'll bring it on...but you better come prepared because the "left-wing" as you choose to describe us are coming out of the woodwork and we've had enough! Our Government has failed, failed miserably and the WORLD is watching. Mears and PBman hang your heads in shame, humble yourselves and admit it!!! And I don't just blame Bush for this mess, all the politicians are to blame, the whole political machine has gone bad.......

We have become a nation of corporate greed, chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of anyone that might be in our way. Personally, I don't want to live that way and I can only hope that more Americans like me feel the same way....so get ready Mears and PBman the "left-wingers" are coming!

JoMo that was very well put and without calling either of them a f*****t or c***t or anything else nasty. I am just going to agree with you and say top post.

 

[JoMo1953]

I see Mears and PBman have nothing to say all of a sudden......???

 

[spring-peeper]

To JoMo and rocketman,

Please try to make your posts a reality.

My prayers are with you and the others as you try to make this happen.

(ps - reading your posts actually brought tears to my eyes, thank you)

 

[herman]

What if Hurricane Ivan Had Not Missed New Orleans?

This article penned in 2004 highlights the danger of what actually came to pass last weekend.

http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

 

[mears]

Indeed he does. After all disaster avoidance or management requires a planned approach, but of course any nation that sees the market as the answer would reject any notion of planning. After all the argument runs that the market is the most efficient way of linking consumers with products.

In this particular instance however we are generally discussing how a crisis predominantly affected those who as the poorest in society were already on the margins of the system.

The market of course functioned properly in this instance with those who could afford to leave New Orleans on the whole doing so. It is in cases like this that the survival of the fittest nature of the capitalist system comes into sharp focus.

Cuba employs a high degree of planning in many spheres of political and economic life. That this approach is correct can be illustrated with :

"When hit by category 5 hurricane, Ivan, in 2004, Cuba evacuated 1.9 million people from vulnerable areas prior to the storm. No Cubans died as a result of the storm."

For me it says much.

I will however be heeding one aspect of George Bush's advice however and when I get paid at the end of the week will be making a donation to the Red Cross who have the hard job of picking up the pieces of shattered lives of a people betrayed by free market ideologues.

I believe in the free market. What economic system do you believe in?

 

[mears]

So do I Rocketman, so do I.........and I'm an American

And to my fellow Americans PB and Mears....shame on both of you, PBman you want to "Piss on My Grave" as you so eloquently put it in another thread we'll bring it on...but you better come prepared because the "left-wing" as you choose to describe us are coming out of the woodwork and we've had enough! Our Government has failed, failed miserably and the WORLD is watching. Mears and PBman hang your heads in shame, humble yourselves and admit it!!! And I don't just blame Bush for this mess, all the politicians are to blame, the whole political machine has gone bad.......

We have become a nation of corporate greed, chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of anyone that might be in our way. Personally, I don't want to live that way and I can only hope that more Americans like me feel the same way....so get ready Mears and PBman the "left-wingers" are coming!

Those corporations provide health care and jobs to millions of Americans. Those US corporations like microsoft and google make it possible to communicate as we are doing. Who is going to provide us with millions of jobs in the first world, our governments?

What would African and ME countries do without British Petroleum and Exxon Mobil. How do you get the oil from the ground without their capital and expertise? Its not those corporations fault Africa is filled with shanty town for instance. Its the accountable leaders, but I digress.

 

[nino_savatte]

Says in a robotic voice *I believe in the markets and the military-industrial complex. What do you believe in?*

 

[rocketman]

Says in a robotic voice *I believe in the markets and the military-industrial complex. What do you believe in?*

Human nature.

 

[nino_savatte]

Human nature.

I was taking the piss out of our friend mears, btw.