Is there such a thing as "extreme left"?

[seventh bullet]

I think it would be fair to describe any sort of revolutionary left as extreme tbh. That's not to say they're necessarily wrong or to deny that the right will seek to portray people who it doesn't get close to fitting in that light but they do exist don't they.

There's even some on here.

This is the thing that gets me. Even just being as vague as I'm about to be in airing the aspiration of just wanting everyone's basic needs to be met for free (food, water, shelter, healthcare and education) in order to create contented and rounded members of a community rather than atomised individuals compelled to waste potential and creative energies competing for crumbs, is called 'extreme.'

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

This is the thing that gets me. Even just being as vague as I'm about to be in airing the aspiration of just wanting everyone's basic needs to be met for free (food, water, shelter, healthcare and education) in order to create contented and rounded members of a community rather than atomised individuals compelled to waste potential and creative energies competing for crumbs, is called 'extreme.'

I don't think many people would call that extreme to be fair. It s just vaguely aspirational ,as you say. If you think the way to actually achieve that is through revolutionary (and probably violent) means though that's something else.

Like I say I'm not even saying it's wrong per se, there's a strong case for arguing that we do need some pretty extreme changes. I just think trying to argue that it's not extreme is a pretty futile dead end.

 

[seventh bullet]

I don't think many people would call that extreme to be fair. It s just vaguely aspirational ,as you say. If you think the way to actually achieve that is through revolutionary (and probably violent) means though that's something else.

Like I say I'm not even saying it's wrong per se, there's a strong case for arguing that we do need some pretty extreme changes. I just think trying to argue that it's not extreme is a pretty futile dead end.

As we've seen in France recently with Macron, liberals would rather work with open fascists than the left. And we're not talking about the radical left, a left that could be labelled as 'extreme.'

Violence is painted by governments who hold the monopoly on such a thing and use it daily as something that is essential, a fundamental part of the 'extreme' left.

 

[ska invita]

The system in the USA is set up for this. Their 'Overton Window' has always been radically to the right of how we in the UK might think. They've never had any significant 'extreme left' (please don't mention the Sparts anyone - all six of them

I don't this is true anymore, as a rule of thumb we now have a very similar political choice in the UK as the US and id say the Democrats are significantly to the left of Labour economically, in that Obama and Biden have borrowed iirc well over 100 billion dollars between them since 2008 to"stimulate" the economy.... The Democrats still believe in Keynesianism....whereas Labour....

And Starmer has set that neolib Labour trajectory in stone.

ETA borrowing might even be higher... No one can comprehend trillions anyway but its some massive sum.

 

[Dystopiary]

I'm personally taking the winter palace as soon as my gammy leg stops aching

I'll be storming the barricades as soon as I manage to drag myself out of bed.

 

[Serge Forward]

As we've seen in France recently with Macron, liberals would rather work with open fascists than the left. And we're not talking about the radical left, a left that could be labelled as 'extreme.'

Violence is painted by governments who hold the monopoly on such a thing and use it daily as something that is essential, a fundamental part of the 'extreme' left.

It's the extreme centrists that worry me most.

 

[A380]

As Soon As This Pub Closes

"I could have done it yesterday if I hadn’t a cold,

But since I’ve put this pint away I’ve never felt so bold.

So as soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, the revolution starts

I’ll shoot the aristocracy and confiscate their brass,

Create a fine democracy that’s truly working class.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, I’ll raise the banner high

I’ll fight the nasty racialists and scrap the colour bar,

And all fascist dictatorships and every commissar.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, I’ll man the barricades

So raise your glasses, everyone, for everything is planned,

And each and every mother’s son will see the Promised Land.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes … I think I’m going to be sick"

Alex Glasgow

 

[Fozzie Bear]

"Extreme" is a handily subjective term that only makes sense in relation to other things.

So, for some people, a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor is extreme. For me that is pretty mild, compared to my desire to abolish money and all forms of symbolic exchange. (And rewild the City of London with wolves).

There is a whole academic field dedicated to "extremism studies" and as far as I can make out it basically concentrates on terrorism. So the extremity of tactics (bombing etc) is more important than the extremity of ideology.

So possibly I am safe from the clutches of the academics as I am not advocating for the Bank of England to be bombed.

 

[8ball]

… so possibly I am safe from the clutches of the academics as I am not advocating for the Bank of England to be bombed.

They might have something to say about the wolves, I suppose.

 

[NoXion]

I dunno, but i sometimes wonder are there actually any communists, anarchists, anrcho syndicalists etc on these boards?
Plenty who can regurgitate learned factoids and analysys of the various left-isms but I've not read much indication from those types that they are walking the walk.

What constitutes "walking the walk", o arbiter of authentic leftyness?

 

[NoXion]

'Centrism' is pretty fucking extreme when you break down what it actually entails.

Centrism is just the right wing pretending to be something else. It's not actually any kind of coherent ideology.

 

[Serge Forward]

As Soon As This Pub Closes

"I could have done it yesterday if I hadn’t a cold,

But since I’ve put this pint away I’ve never felt so bold.

So as soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, the revolution starts

I’ll shoot the aristocracy and confiscate their brass,

Create a fine democracy that’s truly working class.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, I’ll raise the banner high

I’ll fight the nasty racialists and scrap the colour bar,

And all fascist dictatorships and every commissar.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes, I’ll man the barricades

So raise your glasses, everyone, for everything is planned,

And each and every mother’s son will see the Promised Land.

As soon as this pub closes, as soon as this pub closes,

As soon as this pub closes … I think I’m going to be sick"

Alex Glasgow

Come on, let's have the music for the full drunken effect

 

[8ball]

Centrism is just the right wing pretending to be something else. It's not actually any kind of coherent ideology.

Or, as a right winger would say, centrism is just the left wing pretending to be something else.

 

[The39thStep]

 

[frogwoman]

Of course there is. This guy looks familiar, can't really remember who he is though.



At the risk of being called a liberal lol i tend to agree that the authoritarianism scale is a better one these days honestly. These days I'd probably classify myself as more centre left tbh, whether others agree is up to them though. I consider it centre left tho in that I'm to the right of many people on here on a few issues but probably way to the left of most people calling themselves 'centrists'

 

[krtek a houby]

Or, as a right winger would say, centrism is just the left wing pretending to be something else.

And what would a centerist say?

 

[frogwoman]

And what would a centerist say?

They'd just say that they are being pragmatic and realistic and that if 'both sides hate them then they must be doing something right'

 

[frogwoman]

And what would a centerist say?

Oh and something about trans people probably

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh and something about trans people probably

In a non-commital way

 

[frogwoman]

In a non-commital way

Oh many self described centrists are absolutely rabid about it

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh many self described centrists are absolutely rabid about it

Linehan, Rowling etc

 

[The39thStep]

It's the extreme centrists that worry me most.

Where is Silas Loom these days?

 

[frogwoman]

Linehan, Rowling etc

I was thinking more of certain ex Guardian and Times columnists. I wouldn't classify Linehan and especially not Rowling as centrists these days because of eg the latter cosying up to Twitter fash among other things. Although she did call for a vote for the Communist Party of Britain

 

[8ball]

…she did call for a vote for the Communist Party of Britain

Centrist Communists are the worst.

 

[frogwoman]

Centrist Communists are the worst.

She's not a centrist imo, shes an out and out right winger these days. Centrists would be more like Helen Lewis, Nick Cohen etc.

 

[8ball]

She's not a centrist imo. Centrists would be more like Helen Lewis, Nick Cohen etc.

Ah, not familiar with Helen Lewis.
Though most things I’ve read in the Atlantic have been pish.

 

[frogwoman]

Ah, not familiar with Helen Lewis.
Though most things I’ve read in the Atlantic have been pish.

Ex New Statesman editor

 

[SpookyFrank]

Centrism is just the right wing pretending to be something else. It's not actually any kind of coherent ideology.

No but lots of centrists seem to think otherwise.

See also, the endless rightward shift of 'common sense' which many people invoke as if it were a set of inviolable precepts that have existed since the dawn of time.

 

[tim]

loud cunts who wander wound claiming to be the silent majority normally

I wandered lonely as a silent majority

 

[Dogsauce]

The ‘contrarian left’ exists, more so in the US than here, which sees some people claiming to be left supporting authoritarian nationalists and religious fascists like Russia, Assad, Hamas etc. At least in this country this seems to be challenged a bit. I think it’s a kind of politics where people align against something rather than for it.

US politics seems like it’s picking a side, and anyone on the other side is ‘extreme’ as a kind of perjorative without much thought. Related is the frequent use of the terms ‘fascist’ and ‘commie’ to the point that they have lost any apparent meaning.