The debt the British people owe to Gerry Adams...

[ernestolynch]

'the British people' can get the fuck

 

[LiamO]

you realise that this man was involved in trying to have internment implemented both sides of the border in 1979 , just after Thatcher came to power ? Irish diplomats that he approached went ballistic as revealed in papers just released last year . He was Thatchers stooge and the stooge of British governments before and since . A miserable wretch

Excellent posts btw

So to clarify 8den...

You regard Gerry Adams as a cunt because you feel he was responsible for DRIVING the IRA's armed campaign, yes?

CR regards Gerry as a cunt because he feels Adams was responsible for STOPPING it, thereby 'betraying' Republicanism.

You see no incongruity in your new-found alliance? Are you so desperate that you seek common cause with somebody who's views you find so repugnant, purely because you both 'gotta hate Gerry'? So blind in your indecent haste to lick his arse, so myopic in your search for backing, that you totally ignore his 'inconvenient' post about John hulme? Or do you share hus view? Frankly, that is pathetic IMO.

Let me be clear. I like and respect CR. As a man. As a personal friend. As a Socialist and as a Republican who's views differ fundamentally from mine on occasion. However he has a complete blindspot - and suffers a total emotional hijack, surrendering all rationality - when it comes to the thorny issue of Gerry and Martin et al, who he considers to be british agents. He descends, IMO, into complete conspiraloon territory. I have told him this, to his face, often. It amuses me that the Jihadis are so expert at seeing british agents everywhere - except of course in their own organisations, which are riddled with them.

I have no intention of engaging him in a tiresome circular argument - the type we have had often over a pint - for your entertainment. My OP was explicitly aimed at british posters and sought their contribution. SOme of the posts have been illuminating - as have yours, but only to confirm my low opinion of you, your MO and your anger issues - and some have been laughably predictable.

I made quite clear in my OP I had no intention of engaging in an Irish politics 101 - particularly with Irish posters. This post, whilst nominally addressing you, is (like every other post I have made on this thread) actually aimed at the audience clearly identified in the OP.

As for your incongruous position(s)... I am beginning to suspect that the 8 in your username is the number of personalities you have - each angrier and more irrational than the last.

I don't think you are a cunt though 8den...

I think you are a complete bunch of cunts - all wrapped up in one hateful little bundle.

Have a pleasant day.

 

[Random]

I thought that CR was making a political point - is he really just saying that GA is a Brit agent? I'd say there's better explanations as to why a former armed struggle radical would go down the route of political compromise, and I'd say it's probably similar to Mahmoud Abbas's reason - supporting a growing capitalist class in the occupied area that just wants to get on with business.

 

[8den]

So to clarify 8den...

You regard Gerry Adams as a cunt because you feel he was responsible for DRIVING the IRA's armed campaign, yes?

CR regards Gerry as a cunt because he feels Adams was responsible for STOPPING it, thereby 'betraying' Republicanism.

You see no incongruity in your new-found alliance? Are you so desperate that you seek common cause with somebody who's views you find so repugnant, purely because you both 'gotta hate Gerry'? So blind in your indecent haste to lick his arse, so myopic in your search for backing, that you totally ignore his 'inconvenient' post about John hulme? Or do you share hus view? Frankly, that is pathetic IMO.

I can disagree with his overall politics I can agree that it's a point well made compares to you contributions

You know what dear boy, I find your post frightfully tiresome and most of your points thoroughly disengenuous.

Is there anything in your post that we have not dicussed, ad nauseum, over tea and cucumber sandwiches at our gentlemen's Club? No.

Just read your 2nd post.

Get down off your high horse and drink your milk, ffs.

romance for our times?

The Blueshirt and the diehard Jihadi - what strange bedfellows you make.

He is at least capable of making his point without resorting to childish name calling, and playground banter, which you do with tiring frequency.

So Yes I respect CR's analysis because it is mature and honest, even if I vehemently disagree with his politics.

Let me be clear. I like and respect CR. As a man. As a personal friend. As a Socialist and as a Republican who's views differ fundamentally from mine on occasion. However he has a complete blindspot - and suffers a total emotional hijack, surrendering all rationality - when it comes to the thorny issue of Gerry and Martin et al, who he considers to be british agents. He descends, IMO, into complete conspiraloon territory. I have told him this, to his face, often. It amuses me that the Jihadis are so expert at seeing british agents everywhere - except of course in their own organisations, which are riddled with them.

I have no intention of engaging him in a tiresome circular argument - the type we have had often over a pint - for your entertainment. My OP was explicitly aimed at british posters and sought their contribution. SOme of the posts have been illuminating - as have yours, but only to confirm my low opinion of you, your MO and your anger issues - and some have been laughably predictable.

I noticed you've not addressed the point, how can a debt be owed to man who most likely ordered the murder of young mother, denied it, and denied membership of SF, while republican tittle tattle about Mc Conville being caught with transmitters continues on to this day.

I made quite clear in my OP I had no intention of engaging in an Irish politics 101 - particularly with Irish posters. This post, whilst nominally addressing you, is (like every other post I have made on this thread) actually aimed at the audience clearly identified in the OP.

Considering your OP was Irish politics and ignore the list of heinous crimes probably by Adams, I think calling your OP Irish politics 101 is more than a bit presumptive.

I'd call it at best junior infants politics.

As for your incongruous position(s)... I am beginning to suspect that the 8 in your username is the number of personalities you have - each angrier and more irrational than the last.

I don't think you are a cunt though 8den...

I think you are a complete bunch of cunts - all wrapped up in one hateful little bundle.

Have a pleasant day.

And there comes the insults and the suggest that I am insane, surprisingly not coming on the back of accusations I am drunk.

So passive aggressive abuse, a feeble attempt to talk down to me, and all the while your post a attempt to fellatio casually red's ego.

You really are a class act.

 

[LiamO]

CR and yourself are attacking a position - that Gerry Adams is a super nice guy, with no past and no skeletons in his cupboard - that I simply do not hold and never have. CR is well aware of this, as I made plain to him this very morning. THAT is why it is impossible for me to engage with you.

At the end of the day, whatever you or anybody else thinks of G Adams esq., you cannot deny that he (and his cohort of thinkers and analysts) are largely responsible for shifting the Republican movement from an armed campaign to the current Peace strategy.

In the context of the OP of THIS thread, it simply does not matter what he did, or did not do, besides that. If you would like to start another about his 'previous', do feel free.

I never suggested you are insane, I suggested you have multple personalities and anger issues. Perhaps I should do so more often as it seems to have focussed your mind into producing a lucid post.

And as for the accusation of 'passive aggressive abuse'...

How in the name of Allah do you call this...

So to clarify 8den...

I don't think you are a cunt though 8den...

I think you are a complete bunch of cunts - all wrapped up in one hateful little bundle.

... passive?

 

[LiamO]

You really are a class act.

Thank you, sweetheart.

 

[southside]

Anyone see the Sunday Bloody Sunday adaptation last night?

 

[LiamO]

Having read this thread I can only assume that is the ultimate troll.

I cannot express sufficiently my utter disgust that this murdering piece of shit is even considered to be anything other than that. Having had friends murdered at the hands of this piece of shit, and having experienced at first hand the bombing in London I look forward to him suffering the sort of death that even Thatcher would not deserve.

What debt does the British public owe the IRA? Absolutely nothing at all. Murdering scum of the worst possible type.

My regiment served in N Ireland so, as yo will guess, I have no sympathy at all for these people. The sooner they are got rid of the better. Give Ireland to the Irish? Yes please.

And now I feel pissed off that I have risen to the troll bait!

And now you have betrayed your ignorance of your own Country's colonial legacy.

From America in 1776 onwards the British Government has always done business with the leaders of the former insurgent group. This is the case in the Irish Free State, Cyprus, Palestine, Kenya, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, China, Aden, South Africa, etc etc etc. (feel free to add more countries, this list is far from definitive) Why would the north of Ireland be any different?.

They have always done this - despite, I am sure, it being completely against the express wishes of Britain's military and/or paramilitary veterans, about whom they traditionally don't give a fiddler's fart - and will continue to do so.

... and not it's just colonial history either. Did HMG let the feelings of war Veterans colour their post-war relationships with Japan or Germany? They did in their arse. HMG does not care what you think. It does not care about your mates who lost their lives or limbs - no more than it gives a fuck about the civilian dead (or 'collateral damage') in any of it's colonial escapades.

As for "Murdering scum of the worst possible type"? That's what the peoples of britain's former colonies usually call the british military and their paymasters. Not very productive post-conflict is it?

 

[8den]

How in the name of Allah do you call this...



... passive?

Because you followed it up with

Have a pleasant day.

If you think someone is cunt, stick with it.

Now fuck off and have a miserable day you cunt.

 

[LiamO]

If you think someone is cunt, stick with it.

Now fuck off and have a miserable day you cunt.

I told ya, I don't think you 'is cunt' I think you 'is'... 'whole bunch of cunts'.

But I still wish you a pleasant day and hope that you recieve all the happiness and good karma you deserve. God Bless.

 

[8den]

I told ya, I don't think you 'is cunt' I think you 'is'... 'whole bunch of cunts'.

LiamO don't go after spelling mistakes it makes you look like a even bigger cunt.

But I still wish you a pleasant day and hope that you recieve

See? Don't mock other people's spelling you snivelling little wanker. "I" before "E" except after "C". You dozy cunt.

all the happiness and good karma you deserve. God Bless.

Passive aggressive cunt.

 

[LiamO]

LiamO don't go after spelling mistakes it makes you look like a even bigger cunt.

Doesn't it just?

Incidentally who's Gerry "Admas"?

May perpetual light shine upon you.

 

[temper_tantrum]

Good thread, LiamO. Shame about the number of wankers on it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

well a number of former hungerstrikers have claimed that gerry adams personally ordered the disappearance of McConville and others . That he was the man in command of that district at that time . Including one who personally took part in a disppearance .


or more likely its just him disavowing any personal responsibility for some pretty heinous acts .

it amazes me when otherwise sensible people feel they have the personal duty to encourage others to completely suspend disbelief on behalf of this serial liar and egotist . No cause is served by this other than one extremely dodgy and dysfunctional mans massive ego . An ego and incessant need to be perceived as outwardly respectable which was most likely a result of his being raisedby a man re4sponsible for a heinous campaign of physical , emotional and sexual abuse against his own children .
Gerry Adams personal insecurities in my view should not obligate others to cosset the bubble that he very painstakingly constructed around hmself to sheild himself from realities and responsibilities . Its his personal fantasy world , no form of politics are served by everyone else indulging it .

I'm not suspending my disbelief at all, I just don't believe that hearsay evidence constitutes proof. You and I may well say "that Gerry, he's as guilty as a priest caught up a choirboy, credible people have told me so", but that doesn't make him guilty, it merely puts him in the frame.

 

[ViolentPanda]

of course its known

As in "because everybody knows he did it", or as in "because there's quantifiable evidence beyond hearsay that nails him for it"?

 

[LiamO]

Good thread, LiamO. Shame about the number of wankers on it.

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, TT. I appreciate them.

 

[temper_tantrum]

No probs. You seem to be a bit of a wanker magnet in fact, sadly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I keep forgetting that Stormont has a touch of the mad King Ludwig about it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

would he have said this to Fred Scappitticci or Denis Donaldson ?

Adams positon and way forward was laid down in the Hume Adams document- a document the British , Free state and American governments were allowed to read but kept totally secret to this day . His bottom line was no different from Humes , theyd agreed the same position . Some form of British rule was acceptable to him , as was the unionist veto . Hume and Adams had the same position . From that point on he was committed to one course and one course only .
The only reason the Hume Adams document remians unpublished is to spare his blushes .
If at any time he'd attenmpted - not that he wanted to in my view - to deviate from the path outlined in that document then the brits and anyone else had him by the balls . The release of that document to Irish republican scrutiny in the mid 90s would have sealed his death warrant , little doubt about that .
Today when its outworkings are fully apparent many years later and after many activists trusted him it is not anger but apathy and resignation which is the result . Too many people became complicit in his deal thinking it was all about soething else . He compromised a generation .

Adams was only going one road and it was the road Major and Blair congratulated him on . He served their interests well . A model politician andexample to the world from their perspetive .

Agreed.

None of which negates my point that:
As for Adams' position, if Major's government had pulled down the negotiations, all he'd have done is turn around to his people and say "see? We gave them every chance, and they still fucked us over. Bring on the semtex!".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Having read this thread I can only assume that is the ultimate troll.

I cannot express sufficiently my utter disgust that this murdering piece of shit is even considered to be anything other than that. Having had friends murdered at the hands of this piece of shit, and having experienced at first hand the bombing in London I look forward to him suffering the sort of death that even Thatcher would not deserve.

What debt does the British public owe the IRA? Absolutely nothing at all. Murdering scum of the worst possible type.

Would you say the same of, for example, Winnie Churchill?
He had far more blood on his hands.

My regiment served in N Ireland so, as yo will guess, I have no sympathy at all for these people.

My regt served there, and so did I. I even got wounded there.
Do I allow that to colour my opinions? As little as possible. Life's too short to give personal animosity free rein over rationality.

The sooner they are got rid of the better. Give Ireland to the Irish? Yes please.

See what I mean?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The only "debt" that the British people owe Mr. Adams is a high velocity bullet..............

Let me guess: And you're the dickless chickenhawk who'll fire the rifle?

Fucking halfwit.

 

[likesfish]

still does'nt solve the problem of the loyalists that are the problem in the north they still outnumber catholics and weren't that keen on joining the south which was very poor in the 60s and 70s and is now utterly fucked.
a minority attempting to force its views on a majority by armed force is never going to work.
why the fuck would they sign up? Why would the British go for that?
VP IRA bring on the semtex Major reinstates shoot to kill and lets the SAS do their thing. The ira will run out of bodies before the britsh forces do

 

[Random]

Would you say the same of, for example, Winnie Churchill?
He had far more blood on his hands.

He even started the latest version of this whole problem, arguably. 'Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right'.

 

[8den]

Doesn't it just?

Incidentally how is "bould Gerry Adams?"

 

[kyser_soze]

Incidentally how is "bould Gerry Adams?"

Thinning on top?

 

[8den]

As in "because everybody knows he did it", or as in "because there's quantifiable evidence beyond hearsay that nails him for it"?

The statements of several serving IRA members that Adams was a senior IRA member in Belfast is hardly "hearsay"

 

[8den]

Thinning on top?

For a left wing socialist he does like his US politicians

 

[kyser_soze]

Still, I can't believe he's thinking 'Nice norks' there, even tho his eyes are a-wanderin'

 

[ViolentPanda]

The statements of several serving IRA members that Adams was a senior IRA member in Belfast is hardly "hearsay"

I've already said that I don't dispute Adams' membership of the IRA, or his position.
I'm saying that (as I've made quite clear, at least twice now) that claims that Adams ordered Jean McConville's murder are hearsay, and in the absence of any substantive evidence (which may or may not exist. Who knows what delights the green slime have stored away?) otherwise, that's what the claims will remain.

Perhaps the third time will be the charm, eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Still, I can't believe he's thinking 'Nice norks' there, even tho his eyes are a-wanderin'

If he's got any sense he's thinking "there's a forehead made to be pierced by a sniper's bullet". He'd arguably be doing Billie Clinton a favour, too, as well as causing an earthquake of orgasms among the US right at her death.