British Empire and Slave Trade Reparations

[Petcha]

Why can't British journos learn to pronounce Samoa properly? Sorry, just been pissing me off all day.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

suh·mow·uh?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

To the best of my knowledge virtually all the Caribbean islands were already populated by various indigenous peoples prior to the arrival of Europeans and the slave trade. IIRC I think it was the either the Caribs or Arawaks in Jamaica, I'm probably wrong though.

Yes, one I went to earlier this year was Arawaks, today it is Afro-Caribbeans, yet there was no slavery there, which is what got me thinking about it...

 

[nogojones]

What could reparations even look like now?

How about we enslave members of the boards/CEO's of any company that benefited from the original reparations. Sort of like working off the debt

Or they could pay them back plus interest?

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

I have found one statistical ready:
Over the course of an average 79-year lifespan, a white individual contributes a net $220,805 to the system, whereas over the course of an average 75-year lifespan, a black individual receives a net $751,200
Does that count as reparations?

 

[Humberto]

Counts as garbage.

 

[Sweet FA]

I have found one statistical ready:
Over the course of an average 79-year lifespan, a white individual contributes a net $220,805 to the system, whereas over the course of an average 75-year lifespan, a black individual receives a net $751,200
Does that count as reparations?

who's this dickhead?

 

[PTK]

Whence comes the capital with which capitalism starts?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I have found one statistical ready:
Over the course of an average 79-year lifespan, a white individual contributes a net $220,805 to the system, whereas over the course of an average 75-year lifespan, a black individual receives a net $751,200
Does that count as reparations?

a) That's an American talking point, a place with a fundamentally different history in respect of African slavery than the UK, which is what this thread is talking about.
b) The only other place I can find that statistic quoted is white-supremacy fash blogs. So unless you have an actual source, nobody is going to take you seriously quoting that bollocks.

 

[Yossarian]

You do know that black people in the USA have the highest living standards of any black people in the world and the Caribbean people are not far behind and I would love to live in Jamaica or any of the other Caribbean islands.

Are you arguing that Black Americans' compensation for slavery is that they get to live in America?

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Yes.


And Jamaica as well. I would love to live in Jamaica.

 

[Wkdloz]

I cannot apologize for what some twats did hundreds of years ago, the idea is rediculous!

 

[Sue]

You do know that black people in the USA have the highest living standards of any black people in the world and the Caribbean people are not far behind and I would love to live in Jamaica or any of the other Caribbean islands.

I find that hard to believe tbh. Have you got some data to back that up?

 

[Sue]

I have found one statistical ready:
Over the course of an average 79-year lifespan, a white individual contributes a net $220,805 to the system, whereas over the course of an average 75-year lifespan, a black individual receives a net $751,200
Does that count as reparations?

Where is that from?

 

[lazythursday]

I cannot apologize for what some twats did hundreds of years ago, the idea is rediculous!

I don't think anyone is asking you to apologise. They're asking the British state, and other institutions whose wealth has flowed from slavery.

I wouldn't apologise either. I didn't enslave people, neither, as far as I can tell, did my ancestors, all of whom were peasants. But I think Britain should apologise for it's pretty shameful past. Slavery is just one aspect of that of course.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Shameful past? The Country that abolished slavery and enforced it?

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

I don't think that slavery makes a country rich, otherwise Mauritania would be a very rich country.

 

[A380]

I have found one statistical ready:
Over the course of an average 79-year lifespan, a white individual contributes a net $220,805 to the system, whereas over the course of an average 75-year lifespan, a black individual receives a net $751,200
Does that count as reparations?

You see that tree, no not that one, that one on the horizon. Fuck off to it. And when you get there keep fucking off some more.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes.

Then you are not someone with whom I wish to entertain communicating. Good luck with your life.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

An amazing lack of debate on this forum.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

An amazing lack of debate on this forum.

fuck off

 

[brogdale]

I don't think that slavery makes a country rich, otherwise Mauritania would be a very rich country.

Yeah, of course rates of accumulation are completely unaffected when labour costs are reduced to zero.

Have you forgotten your Marx?

“the veiled slavery of the wage workers in Europe needed, for its pedestal, slavery pure and simple in the new world. . . capital comes dripping from head to foot, from every pore, with blood and dirt”.

 

[Sue]

An amazing lack of debate on this forum.

No. Just with you because you're talking nonsense.

 

[danny la rouge]

No. Just with you because you're talking nonsense.

Racist nonsense.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I cannot apologize for what some twats did hundreds of years ago, the idea is rediculous!

This isn't about individuals feeling guilt. It's about a collective entity (in this case the UK) making some amends for shockingly awful things that were done in the past from which this collective entity gained a not inconsiderable collective benefit.

The world isn't as it is now as some standalone fact. The world has become what it is now as a result of numerous historical processes. And that includes the reasons why some parts of the world are much, much richer than other parts.

You can't actually make amends, not really. But you can acknowledge the debt and do something meaningful to help those whose position today is in no small part explicable by the fact that history placed their ancestors on the wrong end of a particular historical process from which the UK as a collective whole benefited.

Regarding development, the inflow of surplus value into the UK produced on the backs of slaves was very considerable for a very long period. During that period, Britain developed in various ways while the slaves experienced only slavery.

Yes, people within the UK were also horribly exploited right through that period. But like I say, this isn't about who may or may not be your direct ancestor. It's about doing something meaningful to address the global inequality that is the legacy of colonialism and slavery.

 

[PTK]

There is no point in engaging with such stupidity.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

I'm not even interested in politics and I seem to know more about the subject than the people here. It's a much broader and more nuanced subject than going, "that people good, that people bad".

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I'm not even interested in politics and I seem to know more about the subject than the people here. It's a much broader and more nuanced subject than going, "that people good, that people bad".

Knob.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

New Labour have form for being shockingly shit at this stuff. Even worse than the Tories. One of Tony Blair and Claire Short's first acts was to abolish the compensation scheme for white farmers in Zimbabwe, declaring that the racist past of that country wasn't their fault and was nothing to do with them.

That compensation scheme might sound anacronistic, a bit like paying slave owners to free their slaves. But it was a crucial part of land reform in the 80s and 90s, set up by Thatcher of all people. Abolishing it led more or less directly to the violence that followed soon after.

Clueless.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Thank you.