The debt the British people owe to Gerry Adams...

[LiamO]

especailly a south thats proven economically it could'nt orgainse a piss up in a brewey.

Small state in 'failure to buck cyclical nature of Capitalism' shocker. Huh. you wouldn't the British, the Yanks, the Germans, the Japanese etc falling for that one. Oh no!

Fuckin bogwogs, practically darkies. Same as happens in Africa innit. Jungle bunnies running their own country? Don't make me larf.

 

[LiamO]

Certainly managed to get vast amounts of tax payers money into the north.

Did they really? Pre the 1960's?

The British gov does well to hide from it's citizens the amount of Public Sector jobs, infrastructional investment and brand spanking new council houses a little civil disobedience followed by an armed campaign can bring.

 

[dylanredefined]

Did they really? Pre the 1960's?

The British gov does well to hide from it's citizens the amount of Public Sector jobs, infrastructional investment and brand spanking new council houses a little civil disobedience followed by an armed campaign can bring.

Ship building and shorts so that's military contracts probably one of the reasons to hold onto the north.Its common knowledge Northern Ireland got loads of money.Don't think anyone else has thought of terrorism as a way to get funds out of central government.Though nowhere else did they let apartheid develop.

 

[LiamO]

Ship building and shorts so that's military contracts probably one of the reasons to hold onto the north.Its common knowledge Northern Ireland got loads of money.Don't think anyone else has thought of terrorism as a way to get funds out of central government.Though nowhere else did they let apartheid develop.

Common knowledge indeed. But when? and why?

 

[DotCommunist]

Ship building and shorts so that's military contracts probably one of the reasons to hold onto the north.Its common knowledge Northern Ireland got loads of money.Don't think anyone else has thought of terrorism as a way to get funds out of central government.Though nowhere else did they let apartheid develop.

are you fucking joking?

 

[8den]

bollocks , there were 5 provinces , not 4 ish . All part of the one entity . With the same language . The same laws . The same culture . The same religious beliefs . Its seats of kingship and of religiois importance all interlinkd with one another. And the name of the island itself meaning the people and the land were one .

Which is nice and all but that was over990 years ago.

And unless you're planning on reconstituting Breton law it's really a specious argument.


In addition The Celts from the 10th century bear no resemblance to present that Irish.

Are you really suggesting we expel everyone who's not catholic from this Island?

that if the name for a provinc meant one fifth then it was one fifth of a single entity..you have not even attempted to demonstrate how Ireland was not

You've made the statement that Ireland was a single kingdom, it's not up to me to disprove this statement, rather the onus is on you to prove this statement.

no wheres your source for your repeated claim Ireland was never united and never a nation

I've yet to see any evidence that the rule of the high king was absolute across his nation.

alternatively just see conor cruise OBrien , 2 nationism , southern unionism and then see your posts

More Ad hominem.

you have not demonstrated any merit to your arguments , just parroted 2 nationism while even more bizarrely claiming you want your nation united . If its not a nation then theres nothing to unite . Thats simple arithmetic . Just like 5 fifths .

I'm not saying the Island wasn't divided into five kingdoms, I'm merely saying, I don't believe that one ruler controlled all five.

 

[8den]

8den makes a couple of repeated allegations throughout this thread. He whinges about myself and CR of...

1. making Ad hominen attacks

Yeah Liam0

He must be really scared when he clings to his old certainties as tightly as he does. How embarrrassing must it be that Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson etc have proved infinitely more politically flexible (grown up even) than him over the last 10 years? The institutions of the state (such as the RUC), politicians, communities and Unionism in general have all taken tentative steps towards a new disposition - but 8den is stuck, dinosaur like, clinging desperately to what he 'knows'.

The only people I see who are still stuck completely in this completely adversarial mindset are the NI Prison Service (who seem to be determined to bring back the (comforting certainty of) the good old/bad old days - and the malignant revisionists like Eoghan Harris/ the Cruiser etc in the south. What strange bedfellows to choose. But I suppose that assumes 8den actually has a free choice - and I would not be at all convinced that he has.

Entirely Ad hominen

2. pedantically pulling him of spelling mistakes

1 Ad hominen attacks
Practically every comment 8den makes on this thread is an ad hominen on his nemesis Mr Adams, despite the Op specifically stating that it was aimed at allowing british posters to have their say and despite requesting (particularly) Irish posters to address the issue in hand rather than indulging in yet another pointless round of 'whataboutery'.

His 2nd comment to me? he concludes that my failure to address his strawman argument means...

Shall we go through your entire posting history on this thread LiamO? Glass houses....

 

[8den]

Huh. How very dare you. How very dare you indeed. Coming on here with your 'historical evidence'. Humph. Bring all the 'historical evidence' you like. A bit like Michael McDowell... 8den 'knows' what 8den 'knows'... and if you knew what 8den 'knows'... then you would know... that what he 'knows' is FACT... FACT!... geddit?... and if it's good enough for the water-cooler... and good enough for the dinner-party... it should bloody well be good enough for you... so stick that in your pipe and smoke it... Mr Clever Pants.

The quote I have highlighted in blue... is this a direct quote from 8den's CV?

Wow....and the personal attacks keep on coming and coming.

 

[8den]

Ship building and shorts so that's military contracts probably one of the reasons to hold onto the north.Its common knowledge Northern Ireland got loads of money.Don't think anyone else has thought of terrorism as a way to get funds out of central government.Though nowhere else did they let apartheid develop.

Common knowledge indeed. But when? and why?

Um De Lorean

Man was given boat loans of Money by several British Governments

his next venture was his downfall. He was awarded £85m during the late 1970s and 1980s by successive governments to set up a plant to produce a revolutionary, gull-winged, stainless steel sports car in Northern Ireland.

The Labour government, under Jim Callaghan, was convinced that the plant would provide a boost to Northern Ireland, ravaged by unemployment, and help suppress support for the IRA ,and awarded him £55m to set up the plant. The Thatcher government later gave him a further £35m. But although the plant was built, it only ever produced 8,900 cars and closed after just 21 months.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...who-took-thatcher-for-a-ride-dies-529325.html

 

[8den]

Small state in 'failure to buck cyclical nature of Capitalism' shocker. Huh. you wouldn't the British, the Yanks, the Germans, the Japanese etc falling for that one. Oh no!

Fuckin bogwogs, practically darkies. Same as happens in Africa innit. Jungle bunnies running their own country? Don't make me larf.

So to be clear, you're dismissing criticism of the failures of the Irish State as racist bollocks, and yet dismissing the failures of the economic state as "failures to buck the cyclical nature of capitalism"

This is funny on two points.

1) LiamO is essentially parroting Fianna Fail party line here. Fianna Fail's argument is "Sure we couldn't have know about Lehmens brothers and the like, we're just a wee small country on the edge of Europe". That's LiamO's point of view. Feel free to rebut LiamO, and tell us "What LiamO meant to say was?"

2) This argument is fucking bollocks. Yes Ireland got kicked in the teeth by the global financial downturn. But fuck me, did we ask for it.

We built a entire economy about buying and selling houses to each other, Ireland kept electing the shower of complete corrupt wankers into power for nearly 20 year.

Ireland is responsible, every idiot who took out a mortgage on a few buy to lets, everyone, who re-mortgaged the value of their houses. Idiots to a man.

 

[LiamO]

here's one more ad hominem for you





you





are






a







complete








fuckin









header.





end of...

 

[8den]

here's one more ad hominem for you





you





are






a







complete








fuckin









header.





end of...

Does

That

Mean

You

Can't

Answer

My

Points

Mc Fuck?

 

[likesfish]

Small state in 'failure to buck cyclical nature of Capitalism' shocker. Huh. you wouldn't the British, the Yanks, the Germans, the Japanese etc falling for that one. Oh no!

Fuckin bogwogs, practically darkies. Same as happens in Africa innit. Jungle bunnies running their own country? Don't make me larf.

I could quote numerous Irish posters complaining about the quality of irish mps but that would be racist apprantly.

 

[8den]

I could quote numerous Irish posters complaining about the quality of irish mps but that would be racist apprantly.

No see when we complain about our politicians being a bunch of amoral, shiftless, gormless, out to line their own pockets, assholes, that's acceptable.

When you point out our politicians are corrupt, feckless and useless , well;

However when we point out your politicians are corrupt feckless toffs, we're commenting on the ruling elites who oppress our fair nation.




What? Double Standards are at least some sort of standards.

 

[flypanam]

Now, was the island of Ireland ever a single political unit? I think not.
Did it, however, have a unifying mythology and history shared by all the indigenes? Historical evidence shows us that it did.
QUOTE]

I would have thought that Grattans Parliament voting for the Act of Union in 1801 was an act of Ireland as a single political unit.

 

[krtek a houby]

Wow....and the personal attacks keep on coming and coming.

Nothing like Irish versus Irish, personal attacks are a speciality

 

[grit]

Fuckin bogwogs, practically darkies. Same as happens in Africa innit. Jungle bunnies running their own country? Don't make me larf.

Its not that Ireland failed to buck the nature of capitalism. Its the fucking appalling strategical responses to the problems. Which is just fucking embarrassing. Reading the Irish media online while I feel compelled to do never fails to make my heart sink at the near comical way the country is run. A theme park called Ireland.

 

[8den]

Now, was the island of Ireland ever a single political unit? I think not.
Did it, however, have a unifying mythology and history shared by all the indigenes? Historical evidence shows us that it did.
QUOTE]

I would have thought that Grattans Parliament voting for the Act of Union in 1801 was an act of Ireland as a single political unit.

Except Tenants were disenfranchised from electing that Parliament. Considering that was 90% of the population, it's hardly fair.

 

[krtek a houby]

Its not that Ireland failed to buck the nature of capitalism. Its the fucking appalling strategical responses to the problems. Which is just fucking embarrassing. Reading the Irish media online while I feel compelled to do never fails to make my heart sink at the near comical way the country is run. A theme park called Ireland.

Many years ago, 2000AD had a story where Judge Dredd visits Ireland and it is a big theme park, oddly enough

 

[DotCommunist]

All the Mega Cities that aren't Mega City 1 aree vast parodies of themselves. Like when he goes to brit cit, or egypts mega city.

anyway, o/t. Let the irish barroom brawl of a thread recommence.

 

[flypanam]

Except Tenants were disenfranchised from electing that Parliament. Considering that was 90% of the population, it's hardly fair.

Fair or not fair Ireland up to the Act of Union was a single political entity. That body politic the tenants, Catholics, and Dissenters were not included in that decision making is irrelevant. It was a common occurance throughout Europe at the time. The landowning class had a system of governance which allowed for goverment accross the 32 counties. There was no other counter system in place. And by the absence of a counter system we can claim that Ireland was a single political unit. Much in the same way we can say that North was a single political unit (no matter how divided the body politic) until direct rule.

 

[grit]

All the Mega Cities that aren't Mega City 1 aree vast parodies of themselves. Like when he goes to brit cit, or egypts mega city.

anyway, o/t. Let the irish barroom brawl of a thread recommence.

Any idea if I could find this comic online, I'm curious to see it.

 

[krtek a houby]

Any idea if I could find this comic online, I'm curious to see it.

 

[Deareg]

Except Tenants were disenfranchised from electing that Parliament. Considering that was 90% of the population, it's hardly fair.

You are using the fact that that 90% of the population were not allowed a say in the running of their own country as an argument for your position that there never was a single united Irish nation?

 

[LiamO]

Shall we go through your entire posting history on this thread LiamO? Glass houses....

That is entirely the point I was making, amadán.

You started the personal stuff .... again.

You started the 'typo' stuff.... again.

Then you are crying and complaining about it, when others respond in kind.... again.


Perhaps if you could link to a post where I am crying about you saying 'bold words' to me, you might not look such a cry-baby.

Now dry your eyes, good lad. mammy has a bar for you.

 

[Deareg]

That is entirely the point I was making, amadán.

You started the personal stuff .... again.

You started the 'typo' stuff.... again.

Then you are crying and complaining about it, when others respond in kind.... again.


Perhaps if you could link to a post where I am crying about you saying 'bold words' to me, you might not look such a cry-baby.

Now dry your eyes, good lad. mammy has a bar for you.

He was whining in another post about pedantry and sarcasm, it seems that he does not like having to take his own medicine.

 

[LiamO]

Wow....and the personal attacks keep on coming and coming.

I note you failed to answer VP's post - probably on account that he made you and your 'position' look childishly silly ... again

 

[LiamO]

I could quote numerous Irish posters complaining about the quality of irish mps but that would be racist apprantly.

Blah blah.

You posted this simplistic statement...

especailly a south thats proven economically it could'nt orgainse a piss up in a brewey.

I pointed out that this was a typical daily mail-type, post-colonialist soundbite. It is meaningless twaddle. Unless you mean that the South is in the state it is in because they are Irish. If that was not what you intended to convey, do feel free to clarify.

It's about as meaningful an argument as telling Unionists a few short years ago when the 'Celtic Tiger' was in it's 'pomp' that they would be better off in a United Ireland on economic grounds. It is a soundbite. Nothing moere.

Are you suggesting that the neo-liberal spiv-class who 'punted' the future of their econommy and people on an unsustainable property bubble, would really be interested in uniting the country? I would suggest not. So if we are in a position in the future where unity is on the cards, you can be damn sure that this mob will not be in power.

 

[LiamO]

Its not that Ireland failed to buck the nature of capitalism.

Yes it is.

I know not a lot about economics but I could see this. You saw it, didn't you Grit. Lots of people did. The neo-con spivs were really were convinced they could pull it off. They laughed at the Germans, the French etc when they suggested caution. They are not laughing now.

 

[krtek a houby]

Are you suggesting that the neo-liberal spiv-class who 'punted' the future of their econommy and people on an unsustainable property bubble, would really be interested in uniting the country? I would suggest not. So if we are in a position in the future where unity is on the cards, you can be damn sure that this mob will not be in power.

Who is interested in uniting the country? Would you say the vast majority of Irish people are?