The debt the British people owe to Gerry Adams...

[LiamO]

You are using the fact that that 90% of the population were not allowed a say in the running of their own country as an argument for your position that there never was a single united Irish nation?

Yes, he is.

The mistake you are making is assuming that there will be a logic and rationale to his posts and looking for it. There is none.

 

[LiamO]

Who is interested in uniting the country? Would you say the vast majority of Irish people are?

Yes, I believe they are. I am not suggesting they currently have it at the top of their agenda

I have no notion of entering another round of this particular strawman, circular argument with you.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes.

Why did they reject the claim on the 6 counties, then, do you think?

 

[LiamO]

Who is 'they'? and what, specifically, did they 'reject'?

Some other time Jer. Have a pleasant afternoon.

 

[flypanam]

Actually Jer i don't think they did. The referendum on articles 2 and 3 was quite played out in Ireland at the time. Certain sections of civil society argued that to vote against the change was also a vote against "Peace." I don't think that anyone in ireland rejected the idea of a united Ireland beacuse the change in the constituion actually allowed anyone born on the 'Island of Ireland' the right to be an Irish citizen. Article 3 expresses the aspiration to a united ireland when accepted by 'both' sides. Hardly a rejection.

From article 3.

1.It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

 

[krtek a houby]

Actually Jer i don't think they did. The referendum on articles 2 and 3 was quite played out in Ireland at the time. Certain sections of civil society argued that to vote against the change was also a vote against "Peace." I don't think that anyone in ireland rejected the idea of a united Ireland beacuse the change in the constituion actually allowed anyone born on the 'Island of Ireland' the right to be an Irish citizen. Article 3 expresses the aspiration to a united ireland when accepted by 'both' sides. Hardly a rejection.

From article 3.

1.It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

Do the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland?

 

[Lock&Light]

Do the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland?

I think undoubtably, but not at any price.

 

[flypanam]

^^^
This. The best and only answer.

 

[grit]

Yes it is.

I know not a lot about economics but I could see this. You saw it, didn't you Grit. Lots of people did. The neo-con spivs were really were convinced they could pull it off. They laughed at the Germans, the French etc when they suggested caution. They are not laughing now.

Ok, thats fair enough, I should rephrase, I expected them not to buck the nature of capitalism. I didn't expect them to have such bad responses to it (well I had at least hoped).

 

[krtek a houby]

I think undoubtably, but not at any price.

Fair enough. I imagine there's more pressing issues at hand, currently

 

[LiamO]

I didn't expect them to have such bad responses to it (well I had at least hoped).

yeah. I suppose lots of people were shocked that the 'experts' were as fuckin clueless as the sheeple they led!

 

[8den]

That is entirely the point I was making, amadán.

You started the personal stuff .... again.

You started the 'typo' stuff.... again.

Then you are crying and complaining about it, when others respond in kind.... again.


Perhaps if you could link to a post where I am crying about you saying 'bold words' to me, you might not look such a cry-baby.

And LiamO if you had started this off in post 19 you'd have a point.

You don't get to start the argument by slagging off typos and reeling off personal attacks, and then demanding a "mature debate" you'd have point.

Now dry your eyes, good lad. mammy has a bar for you.

You can't even keep it up for a single post.

 

[8den]

I note you failed to answer VP's post - probably on account that he made you and your 'position' look childishly silly ... again

Or I missed it among your list of petulant whining and avoidance of every one of my posts.

Did it, however, have a unifying mythology and history shared by all the indigenes? Historical evidence shows us that it did.

It probably did a one point, but so did many tribes and nations now separated by national borders.

Does a shared mythology from 800 years ago justify a campaign of terror and violence in 1970s 80s and 90s?

Is a better question though.

 

[LiamO]

Does a shared mythology from 800 years ago justify a campaign of terror and violence in 1970s 80s and 90s?

Is a better question though.

Nope. it's another shit one.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nope. it's another shit one.

Can you answer the question, mind

 

[LiamO]

And LiamO if you had started this off in post 19 you'd have a point.

I wil type this slowly (again) so you can understand it...

I

did not

make

post #19.

You know, the one you have repeatedly alluded to as being a dastardly attack on your delicate sensibilities? The one you ridiculously claim precipitated your melt-down on this thread?

I. Did. Not. Post it.

It. was. Another. Poster.

The. Author. Of. Post. 19. Was. "Lock&Light". You CANNOT change this simple, indisputable, fact just by repeatedly claiming it was made by me.

You buck eejit.






Post 19....

What's one of them, then?

 

[Deareg]

Can you answer the question, mind

Are you and that other fucking headcase really suggesting that it was some 800 year old mythology that was the cause and motivation for the conflict in the 6 counties?

 

[LiamO]

Can you answer the question, mind

You answer it cry-baby.

It's an absolutely knob-tastic, question so it should suit you.

 

[krtek a houby]

Are you and that other fucking headcase really suggesting that it was some 800 year old mythology that was the cause and motivation for the conflict in the 6 counties?

Can't speak for 8den but for me? No. And must you resort to name calling when all else fails?

If one of you friendly folks comes back and says that the conflict in the 6 counties is the result of sectarianism, discrimination; that's fair enough.

Does that justify the endless cycle of violence, though?

 

[LiamO]

Are you and that other fucking headcase really suggesting that it was some 800 year old mythology that was the cause and motivation for the conflict in the 6 counties?

apparently they are.

 

[krtek a houby]

You answer it cry-baby.

It's an absolutely knob-tastic, question so it should suit you.

This is a recurring theme with you, isn't it? Insults bandied about when you can't answer a straight question.

 

[LiamO]

Can't speak for 8den but for me? No. And must you resort to name calling when all else fails?

If one of you friendly folks comes back and says that the conflict in the 6 counties is the result of sectarianism, discrimination; that's fair enough.

Does that justify the endless cycle of violence, though?

Not 'arf mate. Your spot-on analysis is such a revisionist-tastic strawman, the other goys will be humongously a-shakin in their disco boots, mate.

 

[LiamO]

This is a recurring theme with you, isn't it? Insults bandied about when you can't answer a straight question.

I don't think you've ever asked one. When you stop asking fuckin stupid, vacuous, Tony Fenton-esque questions, I'll stop treating them, and you, with the requisite level of scorn and ridicule.

This is a politics forum not a drive-time local radio show.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not 'arf mate. Your spot-on analysis is such a revisionist-tastic strawman, the other goys will be humongously a-shakin in their disco boots, mate.

What's with the endless Harry Enfield references and the faux D4 accents?

You are the biggest purveyor of backtracking, revisionism and strawmen here, Liam.

Nobody gives a shit about a united Ireland, here or back home. The only struggle at the moment is keeping a roof over your head.

And what an insult to people to try and sell them the idea that they should be thankful that there's no more bombs going off.

 

[Deareg]

Can't speak for 8den but for me? No. And must you resort to name calling when all else fails?

If one of you friendly folks comes back and says that the conflict in the 6 counties is the result of sectarianism, discrimination; that's fair enough.

Does that justify the endless cycle of violence, though?

No it does not justify it going on for so long, it was a just cause to begin with, though it went on for far too long in my opinion and lots of the tactics that were used and many of the things that happened on all sides were indeed a disgrace and brought shame on all involved, but that is the thing with this type of violence, once it has started it quickly gets out of hand and after it starts to pass down to other generations it takes on it's own momentum and stopping it is almost impossible as has been showed not only in Ireland but in many other places around the world

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't think you've ever asked one. When you stop asking fuckin stupid, vacuous, Tony Fenton-esque questions, I'll stop treating them, and you, with the requisite level of scorn and ridicule.

This is a politics forum not a drive-time local radio show.

How patronising. Still, my point proven yet again. I have no idea who your Tony Fenton is, so your attempts at humour are lost on me and anyone else who can be bothered to read your barmy, smug apologism.

 

[krtek a houby]

No it does not justify it going on for so long, it was a just cause to begin with, though it went on for far too long in my opinion and lots of the tactics that were used and many of the things that happened on all sides were indeed a disgrace and brought shame on all involved, but that is the thing with this type of violence, once it has started it quickly gets out of hand and after it starts to pass down to other generations it takes on it's own momentum and stopping it is almost impossible as has been showed not only in Ireland but in many other places around the world

Thank you, Deareg. The momentum of violence is a curious thing, esp when it dictates to a certain brand of politics.

 

[Deareg]

Nobody gives a shit about a united Ireland, here or back home. The only struggle at the moment is keeping a roof over your head.

And what an insult to people to try and sell them the idea that they should be thankful that there's no more bombs going off.

You are wrong, people do give a shit about a united Ireland, as the conflict up here in the 6 counties plus the growing support for sinn fein in the 26 counties has shown for the last 40 years.

 

[DotCommunist]

for some clarification purpoeses, does anyone have the last polled vote on unification taken among the people of norn? I'd like to see it. My suspicion is that most vote united out of a 'ffs, enough' principle and the days of the die-hard Unionists are long passed..

 

[LiamO]

for some clarification purpoeses, does anyone have the last polled vote on unification taken among the people of norn? I'd like to see it. My suspicion is that most vote united out of a 'ffs, enough' principle and the days of the die-hard Unionists are long passed..

to the best of my knowledge there has never been one.

There was a head count once, of course. The Unionists claimed 'Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right' - then they did some maths and told the Unionist population of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal they could fuck off and serve them right for living in a county with too many taigs.