The children of Windrush

[Treacle Toes]

You questions appear rhetorical. If you can be bothered to really read what I post instead of trying to score points I think you’d find answers...

No they are not rhetorical. I have asked for example why you are unwilling or able to hold the policy makers to account.

Blaming labour and suggesting they are deflecting and smearing whilst denying that any of those MPS have challenged these policies, blaming immigration officers and now the police.

You keep answering my question with questions.

There are no points to be scored. This is a conversation. You are making a lot of statements that you can't back up when challenged. Why can't you just answer the question?

 

[patman post]

What is this random gobbledegook? Police enforce policy and create their own ways of doing things because they can shocker! This is not an answer to the question I asked.

If you are unable to see a link to the way some state officials operate with the way others interpret policy that probably explains why this conversation is going round in circles. But for the record I am not defending the way the immigration policy has been applied, nor am I more concerned about antisemitism across society. But I do find it remarkable that it takes political squabbling to achieve positive results...

 

[Treacle Toes]

If you are unable to see a link to the way some state officials operate with the way others interpret policy that probably explains why this conversation is going round in circles.

Eh? I can see the link between how policy is created and how it is applied, I can also see and have experienced how state officials abuse their power...so we are not going around in circles, we are headbanging the same point, your inability to talk about the policy makers and hold them to account. Why is that?

]But for the record I am not defending the way the immigration policy has been applied, nor am I more concerned about antisemitism across society. But I do find it remarkable that it takes political squabbling to achieve positive results...

Right...yet again, avoiding actually talking about the very people who have implemented these policies and throwing the word antisemitism up in the air in the hope that you never have to actually deal with the point of this thread.

Nice.

 

[patman post]

Eh? I can see the link between how policy is created and how it is applied, I can also see and have experienced how state officials abuse their power...so we are not going around in circles, we are headbanging the same point, your inability to talk about the policy makers and hold them to account. Why is that?

Right...yet again, avoiding actually talking about the very people who have implemented these policies and throwing the word antisemitism up in the air in the hope that you never have to actually deal with the point of this thread.

Nice.

The Windrush and related problems are being resolved since this thread was started, and any wriggling by officialdom not to give fair compensation will be jumped on. Labour’s inaction on antisemitism remains...

 

[killer b]

They certainly use immigrants and immigration to drive down wages and screw the workers - as I suspect you well know

Most employers don't really give a shit about immigration. They just want to pay the least they can for the staff they employ, with the least benefits and job security. Most would say that economic forces beyond their control force them to do that (and they'll probably believe it) - all their competitors do it, they will say, so if they want to employ anyone at all they have to do the same or face financial ruin.

I don't think there's much point in framing this stuff as an issue of personal or professional morality (unless you're using it to organise, but even then I don't know if it's that much use). Very few bosses will be guilted into paying their employees better - the only effective methods are an organised workforce, or actively enforced regulations, both of which are in short supply right now.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The Windrush and related problems are being resolved since this thread was started, and any wriggling by officialdom not to give fair compensation will be jumped on. Labour’s inaction on antisemitism remains...

Labour has repatriated and generously compensated all the British jews they were responsible for unlawfully deporting.

It didn't take them that long tbf.

 

[GarveyLives]

Earlier this evening ...

​

 

[Gramsci]

The Windrush and related problems are being resolved since this thread was started, and any wriggling by officialdom not to give fair compensation will be jumped on. Labour’s inaction on antisemitism remains...

This just does not seem correct to me.

Sections of the press have been focusing on (alleged) Labour party anti semitism for some time now. See London Even Standard had it as front page news.

My Brixton Afro Carribbean friends would like an apology from the Tory party for being institutionally racist. This is what I've been hearing from the Black British community.

Will the media push for this? Doesn't look like it to me. Whilst some press should be praised for bringing the issue up this is step to far for mainstream media.

Which is how the more intelligent Tories are dealing with it. The we messed up on a few thousand Windrush people but surely you aren't saying we should abandon immigration controls line. We must have sensible immigration controls. We are all reasonable people and let's have a discussion on immigration. That is how many to let in.

So the immigration issue gets turned into supposedly rational discussion on what the economy needs.

Which is bollox imo. I'm just playing devils advocate about how this Windrush issue will end.

 

[patman post]

This just does not seem correct to me.

Sections of the press have been focusing on (alleged) Labour party anti semitism for some time now. See London Even Standard had it as front page news.

My Brixton Afro Carribbean friends would like an apology from the Tory party for being institutionally racist. This is what I've been hearing from the Black British community.

Will the media push for this? Doesn't look like it to me. Whilst some press should be praised for bringing the issue up this is step to far for mainstream media.

Which is how the more intelligent Tories are dealing with it. The we messed up on a few thousand Windrush people but surely you aren't saying we should abandon immigration controls line. We must have sensible immigration controls. We are all reasonable people and let's have a discussion on immigration. That is how many to let in.

So the immigration issue gets turned into supposedly rational discussion on what the economy needs.

Which is bollox imo. I'm just playing devils advocate about how this Windrush issue will end.

The Evening Standard had its own run in with Labour when Livingstone clashed with a Jewish reporter. Livingstone appears to remain an antisemite.

Both the PM and the Home Secretary have apologised for the Windrush debacle. But, as they say, kind words butter no parsnips — so the proof of any positive change will come when everyone’s status is regularised and restitution is made.

As for the remainder, I suggest you read the attached link — I’m 20 years younger than the writer, but I find a lot resonates with me...

Enoch Powell: Let's call a spade a spade

 

[Gramsci]

The Evening Standard had its own run in with Labour when Livingstone clashed with a Jewish reporter. Livingstone appears to remain an antisemite.

Both the PM and the Home Secretary have apologised for the Windrush debacle. But, as they say, kind words butter no parsnips — so the proof of any positive change will come when everyone’s status is regularised and restitution is made.

As for the remainder, I suggest you read the attached link — I’m 20 years younger than the writer, but I find a lot resonates with me...

Enoch Powell: Let's call a spade a spade

I live in Brixton. I hear about racism directly from my Afro Carribbean friends.

You aren't listening. What my Afro Carribbean friends want is right to freedom of movement within Commonwealth reinstated and an apology from Tory party for being institutionally racist.

In particular the loss of right of free movement to come here from ex colonies is resented.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'Common wealth'

No it fucking isn't.

 

[existentialist]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

Your agenda started showing at "typical socialist attempt"

 

[existentialist]

Guess our definitions of highlighting vary. Mentioning there could be unexpected problems is not the same as an all-out front bench attack as a diversionary tactic, or perhaps it is...

Who were you? This shit stirring RW narrative feels vaguely familiar.

 

[teqniq]

Immigration scandal expected to spread beyond Windrush group

 

[kalidarkone]

Government announces Jamaican nurse recruitment partnership amid Windrush immigration scandal

Wow! case of one hand not having a fucking clue what the other is doing.....although to be fair that is totally unsurprising!

 

[patman post]

8

I live in Brixton. I hear about racism directly from my Afro Carribbean friends.

You aren't listening. What my Afro Carribbean friends want is right to freedom of movement within Commonwealth reinstated and an apology from Tory party for being institutionally racist.

In particular the loss of right of free movement to come here from ex colonies is resented.

Free movement within the Commonwealth is not a decision that rests only with the UK, but with all 53 free and equal member states. However, free access by Commonwealth citizens to the UK alone could be made possible, though I doubt such a move would get public support within a country that has such antipathy to people from overseas living here — especially those who aren’t White. Such feelings appear to be widely held across society and not only to be found among Conservatives, as studies of the areas of large Brexit support suggest...

 

[kalidarkone]

I had a massive row with ma last night re: The Windrush scandal . She is of that era and came from Jamaica to London to teach. I remember her relinquishing her Jamaican passport in favour for a British one because she got hassled a lot when we went to Spain and France in the 70' s.
So she maintains that as she had the foresight to do this, so should other people and lets face it there are overstayers and people should just put their documents in a box like she did!!!! I ended up putting the phone down on her cus she was shouting and not listening to me trying to say that the issue was more with the children of Windrush not born in the UK and we'll there are a million reasons why it did not even cross their minds...and for the original Windrush people I expect most of them were planning to go back to Jamaica. I know so many Jamaicans that have built a house out there - planning to go back when they retire.

 

[patman post]

Who were you? This shit stirring RW narrative feels vaguely familiar.

I have always been who I am. Any similarity to any other person past or present is coincidental...

 

[Pickman's model]

I have always been who I am.

ah! an advanced mayism

a grand but sadly not novel variation on the auld 'i am who i am'.

are you the same person you were 20 years ago?

 

[elbows]

The Home Office and Downing Street were told in 2016 about problems faced by the Windrush generation, the BBC understands.

They were alerted after the Barbados government raised concerns with the Foreign Office, BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said.

In April 2016, the then Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond - who is now the chancellor - was told by Caribbean ministers about immigrants facing deportation despite having lived in the UK for most of their lives, and the BBC understands a report about their concerns was passed to the Home Office, which was led at the time by Mrs May.

It is not clear at what level the concerns were raised.

Home Office 'knew about Windrush issues'

 

[teqniq]

Yes well I suspect they had become used to acting as a law unto themselves and subsequently thought they could carry on with impunity. Thankfully due to some pretty decent reportage in this instance they were mistaken.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Damian Green 'dismissed Windrush citizenship pleas'

Document shows May’s former immigration minister said Jamaican migrant’s settled status problems were his own fault

 

[Treacle Toes]

In 2013 I spoke against May's racist immigration Bill and raised along with David Lammy and others the implications for citizens that did not have documentation or had papers they were not able to get back from the Home Office, as has played out for the Windrush generation as a result.

 

[Mr Retro]

The Windrush disgrace has expanded and shown over the last days what a shit show the Home Office is. Surely Rudd has to resign now doesn’t she?

I’m not able to really follow developments as close as I’d like over last day or so.

 

[bemused]

The Windrush disgrace has expanded and shown over the last days what a shit show the Home Office is. Surely Rudd has to resign now doesn’t she?

I don't think it's high enough in the public consciousness now to force her out. If Corbyn had called for her to go earlier the later stuff would have made it hard for her to stay. Labour left it too late and now the government are circling the wagons around the 'Windrush migrants aren't illegal immigrants - Labour should stop conflating the two issues'

At some point I expect Labour to be accused of an open border policy.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I doubt either May or Rudd actually believes that anything that has happened to British Caribbean folk was actually wrong, so a sacking or resignation on point of principal doesn't enter into the equation. So we're looking at this purely in terms of damage limitation, and in the context of an already bitterly divided cabinet and party another senior minister's head rolling would do more harm to May's and the Tories' image than merely having an incompetent racist as home secretary.

I strongly suspect there are large chunks of tory-voting middle England who don't give point zero two six of a fuck about the poor souls who have been deported, locked up, deprived of their basic rights.

 

[bemused]

I strongly suspect there are large chunks of tory-voting middle England who don't give point zero two six of a fuck about the poor souls who have been deported, locked up, deprived of their basic rights.

I suspect there are large chunks of the country that doesn't care about this problem.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I suspect there are large chunks of the country that doesn't care about this problem.

And conveniently for May most of them will be in her target demographic of petty, bitter arseholes.

 

[agricola]

I don't think it's high enough in the public consciousness now to force her out. If Corbyn had called for her to go earlier the later stuff would have made it hard for her to stay. Labour left it too late and now the government are circling the wagons around the 'Windrush migrants aren't illegal immigrants - Labour should stop conflating the two issues'

At some point I expect Labour to be accused of an open border policy.

Perhaps - though this fib being exposed about Rudd not knowing about the removals targets (and it almost certainly was a fib, given that theres no other theory that explains why the Home Office targetted the people it did and there seems to have actually have been posters advertizing what the targets were) would have gotten rid of the minister responsible in any previous regime, even Blair's.

 

[killer b]

I suspect there are large chunks of the country that doesn't care about this problem.

the polling is fairly conclusive that there isn't.