The children of Windrush

[Gramsci]

A take on this from Brendan O'Neill from Spiked..

The Windrush fallout has shattered every Remainer prejudice

I try to read articles like this and they bear no resemblance to my life in Brixton.

The read to me as member of intelligentsia slagging off another section of intelligentsia.

My Black British ( working class) friend was a Remainer , not because he loved EU, but because UKIP and the we want our borders back brigade were pushing the agenda. In Brixton/ Lambeth Remainers were majority. And they weren't all the middle class people of nowhere that right wing intelligentsia assume.

On ethnic minorities voting for Brexit. He ( and another Black British friend said this) that the Tory Brexit lot had been saying we will stop EU people coming here and favour Commonwealth citizens. As both my friends said this was forgotten once they had got there Brexit vote. And they were not fooled by it at the time.

 

[teuchter]

Who are these "people" "who aren't allowed to talk about it"?

You have already posted you are willing to see people drown in the Med.

With this you demonstrate exactly the kind of thing that would make some people feel they aren't allowed to talk about issues surrounding immigration. Which is what I actually said.

I state that I'm aware that the consequences of maintaining borders include what happens in the med. You come back with this rather aggressive assertion that I'm "willing to see people drown".

 

[danny la rouge]

teuchter I notice you've tagged or quoted me in these two post:

The children of Windrush

The children of Windrush

Was that just a courtesy, or are you expecting a response? Because you appear to be addressing other people rather than me.

Eg: "What I find particularly unhelpful is when, as soon as someone mentions something as resulting from immigration, they are jumped upon by people telling them to stop blaming immigrants."

- I don't recognise that as anything I've done.

 

[teuchter]

teuchter I notice you've tagged or quoted me in these two post:

The children of Windrush

The children of Windrush

Was that just a courtesy, or are you expecting a response? Because you appear to be addressing other people rather than me.

Eg: "What I find particularly unhelpful is when, as soon as someone mentions something as resulting from immigration, they are jumped upon by people telling them to stop blaming immigrants."

- I don't recognise that as anything I've done.

First one a courtesy really as you'd offered the links to read. Second one I was just quoting something within your post.

No, I don't think you're one of the people who does that.

 

[Gramsci]

With this you demonstrate exactly the kind of thing that would make some people feel they aren't allowed to talk about issues surrounding immigration. Which is what I actually said.

I state that I'm aware that the consequences of maintaining borders include what happens in the med. You come back with this rather aggressive assertion that I'm "willing to see people drown".

Back in post #186 your exact words,

I'm aware that a consequence of maintaining borders is that desperate people drown in the med. I'm not going to shy away from that.

 

[teuchter]

Yes, those were my words. Not what you said they were.

 

[patman post]

The problem here is that the articles in relation to this scandal in the Guardian have been going on for six months (and if you expand that to include articles reporting daft Home Office decisions to kick people out then its been running for the past couple of years), so it isn't something that has obviously been deployed as a political attack line. All that has happened in the past few weeks is that someone has come up with a punchy abbreviation for the crisis (ie: "Windrush generation"), and the Albert Thompson case has revealed the horror of what has been going on and the Governments ongoing inability to see that it has done anything wrong.

The Labour front bench response is what you'd expect any politician, of whatever stripe, who finds themselves confronted with a crisis that they had predicted.

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

 

[killer b]

Typically socialist.

 

[Teaboy]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

Its funny that you're doing here the same thing.

 

[eatmorecheese]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

Yeah, that's the key problem here. Typical socialist smears. You'd never find tories doing that.

Yawn.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

Proof that people arrived when they said they did so therefore can prove their status is irrelevant?

The Labour front bench or MPs that predicted the issues, have questioned the issues arising since, highlighting cases along the way and are now rightly saying 'we told you so'?

That's not a smear or deflection tactic at all. It's almost as if you think those people who implemented the policies and ignored the concerns made over time shouldn't be held to account.

 

[oryx]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

You don't seriously think Labour have protested against the treatment of the Windrush children in order to deflect attention from stories about anti-Semitism, do you?

 

[killer b]

I dont think this clown is serious at all tbh.

 

[8115]

Just a thought, the left should have gone mad about the hostile environment, they should be going mad about people being asked for proof of entitlement for healthcare, they should be going mad about ID for voting and although there are some organisations doing good work I can't help but feel we're going to look back and regret our lack of action.

 

[agricola]

The Labour front bench response is a typical socialist attempt at damage limitation — when confronted with being caught out doing nothing to stop antisemitism in the party, hit out with any counter accusation with supporting stories to smear and deflect, no matter that in this case the landing cards were and are irrelevant...

You'd have been better advised not waiting for JRM before you responded, tbh.

 

[agricola]

More "socialism":

Margaret O’Brien, 69, moved from Canada to Wolverhampton in 1971, got married, had three children and worked for the local council for more than 25 years as a dinner lady, meals on wheels driver, lollipop lady and cleaner.

A spinal injury a few years ago meant she had to give up her job, leading her to apply for benefits for the first time. In 2015, she was told her disability payments had been suspended because she was an illegal immigrant.

O’Brien received a letter stating: “Home Office records indicate that you do not have permission to be in the UK. You should make arrangements to leave without delay.”

The letter informed her “of our intention to remove you from the UK to your country of nationality if you do not depart voluntarily. No further notice will be given”.

If she decided to stay, the letter warned, “life in the UK will become increasingly difficult”; O’Brien was liable to be arrested, prosecuted and face a possible six-month prison sentence.

 

[Streathamite]

Employers don't set immigration policy.

They certainly use immigrants and immigration to drive down wages and screw the workers - as I suspect you well know

 

[patman post]

You don't seriously think Labour have protested against the treatment of the Windrush children in order to deflect attention from stories about anti-Semitism, do you?

Problems for immigrants and their descendants caused by immigration officers have been reported in the Black press for years. But now that you mention it, it’s probably coincidence that Labour has chosen now to highlight the situation when it’s under fire for ignoring antisemitism in its ranks....

 

[Treacle Toes]

Problems for immigrants and their descendants caused by immigration officers have been reported in the Black press for years. But now that you mention it, it’s probably coincidence that Labour has chosen now to highlight the situation when it’s under fire for ignoring antisemitism in its ranks....

They haven't just started highlighting the problems with this policy. Why are you ignoring that fact?

 

[Treacle Toes]

'caused by immigration officers'?

You do realise that immigration officers don't create policy..they enforce it. It seems as if you will do anything to distance this conversation from the actual people that implemented the policy and ignored warnings, why is that?

 

[patman post]

They haven't just started highlighting the problems with this policy. Why are you ignoring that fact?

Guess our definitions of highlighting vary. Mentioning there could be unexpected problems is not the same as an all-out front bench attack as a diversionary tactic, or perhaps it is...

 

[patman post]

'caused by immigration officers'?

You do realise that immigration officers don't create policy..they enforce it. It seems as if you will do anything to distance this conversation from the actual people that implemented the policy and ignored warnings, why is that?

Only following orders — Labour’s not the party I’d have expected to drag up that excuse...

 

[agricola]

Guess our definitions of highlighting vary. Mentioning there could be unexpected problems is not the same as an all-out front bench attack as a diversionary tactic, or perhaps it is...

I'd say someone opposing it at the time and in Parliament at that would count as "highlighting".

 

[Treacle Toes]

Guess our definitions of highlighting vary. Mentioning there could be unexpected problems is not the same as an all-out front bench attack as a diversionary tactic, or perhaps it is...

So you aren't even convinced of your own argument then?

Have you checked the Hansard record and all of the letters that Labour MP's have written over the last 3 years for example about how this policy is affecting people? Have you drawn up a list of all the articles they have contributed to and/or been quoted in? Do you actually know much about this at all?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Only following orders — Labour’s not the party I’d have expected to drag up that excuse...

I haven't made that excuse though..you are though clearly dancing around holding the policy makers to account...Why is that?

 

[patman post]

So you aren't even convinced of your own argument then?

Have you checked the Hansard record and all of the letters that Labour MP's have written over the last 3 years for example about how this policy is affecting people? Have you drawn up a list of all the articles they have contributed to and/or been quoted in? Do you actually know much about this at all?

So how come all this concerted effort has only just attracted mainstream coverage? Coincidence, or a bit of extra impetus...?

 

[patman post]

'caused by immigration officers'?

You do realise that immigration officers don't create policy..they enforce it. It seems as if you will do anything to distance this conversation from the actual people that implemented the policy and ignored warnings, why is that?

Neither are the Police supposed to create policy. But I think we all know how certain officers can implement it on the streets...

 

[Treacle Toes]

So how come all this concerted effort has only just attracted mainstream coverage? Coincidence, or a bit of extra impetus...?

Why should I keep answering your questions if you keep ignoring mine?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Neither are the Police supposed to create policy. But I think we all know how certain officers can implement it on the streets...

What is this random gobbledegook? Police enforce policy and create their own ways of doing things because they can shocker! This is not an answer to the question I asked.

 

[patman post]

Why should I keep answering your questions if you keep ignoring mine?

You questions appear rhetorical. If you can be bothered to really read what I post instead of trying to score points I think you’d find answers...