The children of Windrush

[friendofdorothy]

Reinstate the funding for ships to save those in the Med. Which was cut by government ( May was Home Secretary at the time). Cut as saving people from drowning was seen to encourage migrants. Better that they drown to put off others in future was government view.

More than this we need to ask why are people in unseaworthy boats in the first place? Because EU confiscate vessels bringing migrants. Why are people trying to come to EU /UK by sea - because they are being prevented from travelling safely by train or air.

People who are fleeing war should be able to come here as refugees - as I think the UK has officially/legally agreed to do - didn't the UK undertook to take thousands of syrian refugees?

What is needed to to end ridulous rules that stop them being able to travel here legally and safely, why can't they just get on a plane/legal boat and claim asylum when they land? convoluted rules prevent them - so our govt is in the business of allowing people traffickers to sell expensive, unsafe boat journeys. Our govt is encouraging people trafficking.

 

[Gramsci]

Just the immigration of the middle classes then?

The consequences of working class inmigration are also wage suppression within their trades.

multiple sectors are reporting rising wages because of a post Brexit staff shortage.

It's beyond debate at this point that increased immigration suppresses wages for the poorest amongst us.

I dont understand why it's acceptable to complain about middle class people raising prices but somehow it's bad to complain about working class people supressing wages.

I think both are valid complaints. People have a fair expectation to be able to find housing and we'll paid work in the areas they've grown up in, where their friends and families live.

Working class immigrants don't suppress wages employers do.

I was at local election hustings today in Brixton. The topic for the hustings was housing. The main parties were present except Tories. Housing is big issue in London. Lack of truly affordable housing. No one in meeting once brought up immigration as one of the causes of this.

People were complaining about property developers building houses at prices that weren't affordable and wriggling out of commitments to affordable housing.

Also complaining that local Council wasn't doing enough to build social housing or use what powers it has to remedy lack of decent affordable housing.

It was a lively meeting with plenty of disagreement. No one blaming immigrants at any point.

And no one blaming middle class immigrants as you term them.

Gentrification issues and immigration issue aren't comparable.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Anyway back to the Windrush generation. The caribbean immigrants and their families are British with every right to live here. That was accepted years ago.

A lot of British people couldn't prove who they are to the satisfaction of immigration officers. Lots of people don't drive or have passports, particularly low paid people who can't afford to travel. Who keeps every wage slip? Have you checked that all your NI contributions from your whole working life? I never have, Most of us will never have to prove who we are and our parliament even voted against introducing an identity card scheme.

British people are not compelled by law to prove who they are.

When people came here on the Windrush and in the 60s and 70s standard of paperwork and proof were different than now. Paperwork gets lost. Even officially destroyed.

It's not only wrong and rascist, it's an outrage against a long standing British tradition (well since 1952 anyway.) Identity cards in Britain: past experience and policy implications

 

[Athos]

No, I just don't judge people and label them scabs for crossing a picket line....

I don't see much difference between scabbing and moving to another country to work in an already over supplied trade.

You're a fucking idiot, then.

 

[GarveyLives]

British people are not compelled by law to prove who they are.

It appears that this is does not apply if you are not a member of the ethnic majority:

May's immigration policy seen as 'almost reminiscent of Nazi Germany' (click for more)

​

 

[friendofdorothy]

It appears that this is does not apply if you are not a member of the ethnic majority:

Yes I doubt that any of the children born to white middleclass colonial parents in far flung bits of the empire /commonwealth will have this problem.
I wonder how the uk's hostile regime has treated the white migrants from places like south africa/australia/canada. I've heard no stories of them being refused treatment/access/benefits.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

That the "hostile environment" led to so many British citizens being treated as guilty of a crime based on their ancestry is definitively racist.

Labour and the left have been ceaselessly hauled over the coals for years in relation to anti semitism.

By those standards The Conservative Party should now be the subject of relentless interrogation, formal or otherwise, regarding institutional racism.

If the likes of "News" night and the national press don't now have many interviews, front pages, editorials and columns devoted to the matter, the prime reason for that would be racism. Obviously, most of the people involved are privileged and white.

Such a debate would inevitably trigger racists and their apologists into paroxysms about "witch hunts" and PC Gone Mad (tm). Bring it on. They are likely to start moaning like fuck when the compensation issue arises anyway.

Has any aspect of the billionaire / establishment press or the likes of BBC "news" even mentioned the "r" word yet?

 

[Gramsci]

Yes I doubt that any of the children born to white middleclass colonial parents in far flung bits of the empire /commonwealth will have this problem.
I wonder how the uk's hostile regime has treated the white migrants from places like south africa/australia/canada. I've heard no stories of them being refused treatment/access/benefits.

As I posted earlier this hostile environment of Mays has affected a New Zealand friend mine ( white). Retired, worked here for years suddenly got letter asking about his right to be here. His MP sorted it out.

The hostile environment policy put in place by May has caused this. I was chatting to someone in Brixton today about this. A lot of the people who came here from Carribbean even in seventies didn't really "regularise" there position here. It was just that no one in authority really questioned there immigration status then. A lot of them never applied for British citizenship. They came here got a job and kept there heads down.

I've known plenty of visa overstayers/ "illegal" immigrants in London. It's getting harder with the introduction of "hostile environment". Not totally impossible yet but getting there.

What this children of Windrush issue does do is highlight the arbitrary nature of immigration controls. And the nasty effects of them.

There was a Columbian security guard I knew. He suddenly wasn't at the office. He was married here and lived here. Went back to Columbia for a visit. On way back he was stopped from boarding plane back. Took him three months of arguing to get back here to UK. He told me about it when he came back to his old job.

These kinds of things go on all the time. It's just that it does not effect most of us. A lot of immigration policy is about hounding people. It's not about "unintended" consequences or over zealous officials. This is how it's meant to work.

Unfortunately for this government the Windrush issue broke through to mainstream press. So now May and those who are anti migrants are now falling over themselves to say they of course support Windrush children staying here. That doesn't mean they are going to change immigration policy. Get rid of "hostile environment" for any other groups like South Americans. I see this in some posts here.

I would have thought this would affect people from Pakistan and Bangladesh as they also came here postwar. Haven't heard any cases about them.

 

[crossthebreeze]

"you don't see anything wrong with scabbing??"

No, I just don't judge people and label them scabs for crossing a picket line because I have no idea what reasons they might have to do that.

I don't see much difference between scabbing and moving to another country to work in an already over supplied trade. I don't judge the immigrants personally though even though their actions collectively cause problems in exactly the same was that i don't blame drivers for polluting the air.

Its the difference between doing something for short term gain which actively breaks organised solidarity with clear boundaries (ie scabs crossing a picket line), and moving country as a way of just getting on with your life the best you can whilst perhaps being used by capital in aggregate to drive down wages (though this is not always the case - capitalists also use immigration to expand industries). Capital pits many sections of the working class against each other in this way through immigration and through other mechanisms and its nonsense to blame workers for that (or do you also think uber drivers are the same as strike breakers against taxi drivers for example, or warehouse workers at amazon are the cause of Toys R Us shop assistants losing their jobs). Our only defence against this is solidarity - which takes effort to build - which is why people crossing a picket line and breaking a strike are treated with disdain and anger. And why you're on such dodgy ground comparing immigrants to strike breakers.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

These kinds of things go on all the time. It's just that it does not effect most of us. A lot of immigration policy is about hounding people. It's not about "unintended" consequences or over zealous officials. This is how it's meant to work.

This bears repeating often and loudly.

 

[Slo-mo]

I would have thought this would affect people from Pakistan and Bangladesh as they also came here postwar. Haven't heard any cases about them.

According to this BBC piece, the two groups most affected are Indians and Jamaicans, but it dosent really say why
Who are the Windrush generation?

Perhaps Pakistani and Bangladeshi children were more likely to have their own passport. I'm guessing now.

I do think the people ultimately responsible have hardly been mentioned, BTW. And that this the person or persons who decided not to keep records of everyone in the country when ILR was granted. Being very old or dead doesn't automatically absolve you of everything you've ever done, and it ought to have been possible to see what trouble they were saving up for the future, even from the perspective of 1971.

 

[agricola]

Yes I doubt that any of the children born to white middleclass colonial parents in far flung bits of the empire /commonwealth will have this problem.
I wonder how the uk's hostile regime has treated the white migrants from places like south africa/australia/canada. I've heard no stories of them being refused treatment/access/benefits.

They have been kicking / trying to kick them out though - this lady for instance.

 

[Slo-mo]

I really do believe there should be an upper age limit above which we don't deport except in the most extreme circumstances. 80?

 

[klang]

18.
and children are obviously safe whatever their circumstances.

 

[Slo-mo]

18.
and children are obviously safe whatever their circumstances.

I admire you sentiment but I really don't think it's realistic.

 

[Gramsci]

I was in Brixton today chatting to shopkeeper I know. He was born and grew up in Brixton. His parents came from Carribbean.

He told me one of his relatives who came here in 1968 had immigration troubles couple of years ago. He came here in 68 and has worked in UK since then. Going back to Carribbean every few years to see relatives. He kept his Carribbean passport. Never tried to get UK one. For years this never was a problem. Then couple of years back ( when hostile environment came in) he went to Carribbean. Came back to UK and for first time interrogated by immigration officials at airport. After several hours they let him in. He was starting a new job. The business he was going to work for asked for his papers to prove he could work here. The fact that he had worked here for years didn't count. They said sorry but they couldn't take him on until he got them.

He had to get a lot of legal advice and pay for a identification card. This cost him three grand. Whilst he was sorting this out he couldn't work. He really struggled.

He is back at work now.

My friend said the Tory party is institutionally racist. Whatever May may say now.

Also racist from his perspective are those who are for immigration controls but claim they are not racist.

 

[teqniq]

 

[patman post]

".......My friend said the Tory party is institutionally racist. Whatever May may say now.

Also racist from his perspective are those who are for immigration controls but claim they are not racist.

Despite improvements over recent years, there are still significant numbers of people with racist feelings and opinions across the whole of British society. The Conservatives recently got blamed for the Windrush scandal by a Labour Party desperate to move the spotlight off the activities of its own anti-Semitic members. That’s why incompetent and racist middle order functionaries and other members of the establishment have been able to operate and judge as the whim takes them...

 

[Gramsci]

Despite improvements over recent years, there are still significant numbers of people with racist feelings and opinions across the whole of British society. The Conservatives recently got blamed for the Windrush scandal by a Labour Party desperate to move the spotlight off the activities of its own anti-Semitic members. That’s why incompetent and racist middle order functionaries and other members of the establishment have been able to operate and judge as the whim takes them...

No. You haven't read my post correctly. As I live in Brixton I posted up anecdote from conversation I had today with Black British guy I know. His views on the Tory party being institutionally racist and those who oppose immigration as being racist has nothing to do with Corbyn.

Its from his own experience of living in this country.

We had a long chat. Ive been in Brixton for years. Said to him I remember when I first came to London there was still a lot of racist attitudes in London.

He told me in 70s growing up in London there were placed you did not go if u were Black. As you would beaten up.

Things seemed to improve.

He sees Brexit vote as backward step. This country was getting more tolerant. Now , and I agree with him, it's acceptable to be "concerned" about immigration now.

 

[Gramsci]

Despite improvements over recent years, there are still significant numbers of people with racist feelings and opinions across the whole of British society. The Conservatives recently got blamed for the Windrush scandal by a Labour Party desperate to move the spotlight off the activities of its own anti-Semitic members. That’s why incompetent and racist middle order functionaries and other members of the establishment have been able to operate and judge as the whim takes them...

As local elections are coming up in Brixton I was at a election husting on Saturday. Brixton/ Lambeth still has a black population who are mainly working class.

The Labour party is the main party in the area. The public at husting were giving the ( right wing anti Corbyn) Labour cllrs a hard time. One said that the Lambeth council had "worked hard to disenfranchise Black and Ethnic communities".

Public were criticising local Labour party for not doing enough on housing for example.

The issue of supposed anti semitism never arose. Its not an issue amongst the mainly Black working class communities I live with.

The Windrush issue affects the less well off communities directly. As I tried to show in my posts. Its has real drastic effects on ordinary mainly black people lives.

The anti semitism issue comes across as middle class media debate. Not relevant to lives of the working class.

 

[Gramsci]

Despite improvements over recent years, there are still significant numbers of people with racist feelings and opinions across the whole of British society. The Conservatives recently got blamed for the Windrush scandal by a Labour Party desperate to move the spotlight off the activities of its own anti-Semitic members. That’s why incompetent and racist middle order functionaries and other members of the establishment have been able to operate and judge as the whim takes them...

To add. Will the media be asking for Tory party to look at its institutionally racist attitudes? At how it will root them out?

 

[patman post]

As local elections are coming up in Brixton I was at a election husting on Saturday. Brixton/ Lambeth still has a black population who are mainly working class.

The Labour party is the main party in the area. The public at husting were giving the ( right wing anti Corbyn) Labour cllrs a hard time. One said that the Lambeth council had "worked hard to disenfranchise Black and Ethnic communities".

Public were criticising local Labour party for not doing enough on housing for example.

The issue of supposed anti semitism never arose. Its not an issue amongst the mainly Black working class communities I live with.

The Windrush issue affects the less well off communities directly. As I tried to show in my posts. Its has real drastic effects on ordinary mainly black people lives.

The anti semitism issue comes across as middle class media debate. Not relevant to lives of the working class.

Just trying to point out that Brixton is not the centre of the universe, and though anti-semitism doesn’t affect your local population the perception is hurting Labour more widely. That’s why Labour is pushing hard on the the landing cards issue...

 

[Gramsci]

Just trying to point out that Brixton is not the centre of the universe, and though anti-semitism doesn’t affect your local population the perception is hurting Labour more widely. That’s why Labour is pushing hard on the the landing cards issue...

Its the centre of the universe for this Windrush issue. Why Brixton posters like me have been posting up on this thread.

In London the only people I know who go on about anti semitism are anti Corbyn members of the Labour party.

Its an insult to argue that some politicians in Labour party are concerned about Windrush because they want to deflect attention from alleged anti semitism.

Its offensive.

There are people from Windrush generation bring refused treatment on NHS, being as I've pointed out refused right to work, in danger deportation and your trying to drag so called anti semitism into this?

 

[agricola]

Just trying to point out that Brixton is not the centre of the universe, and though anti-semitism doesn’t affect your local population the perception is hurting Labour more widely. That’s why Labour is pushing hard on the the landing cards issue...

Not really - to say that "Labour is pushing hard on the landing cards issue" because of anti-semitism is to miss the point considerably.

This is an outrage that even the Tory papers have found impossible to defend - given that it disproportionately affects the law-abiding, the people who worked hard and got on, people who like (and in at least one case played at county level) cricket etc and who are being subjected to indefensible treatment as as result. That the current Labour leadership have picked up on it can be explained simply by the fact that Lammy, Corbyn, Abbott (especially) and McDonnell all had the sense to oppose this at the time.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just trying to point out that Brixton is not the centre of the universe, and though anti-semitism doesn’t affect your local population the perception is hurting Labour more widely. That’s why Labour is pushing hard on the the landing cards issue...

Nonsense. That you are trying to conflate the two says a lot about you tbh. We are talking about people who can't prove when they arrived despite having decades full of health, NI, tax records...those landing cards would prove their cases.

 

[bimble]

"The home secretary has insisted that the problem was merely that officials lost sight of people in their concern for implementing the policy."

(from the guardians story on this today).

 

[Slo-mo]

A take on this from Brendan O'Neill from Spiked..

The Windrush fallout has shattered every Remainer prejudice

 

[Treacle Toes]

Good grief, do you ever stop banging the Brexit drum?

 

[teqniq]

No shit Sherlock

EXCLUSIVE: Home Office agencies at heart of Windrush scandal are rife with discrimination and harassment, employees say

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbcjhMZWsAAaHYd.jpg