Blairs right (IMHO) on a lot of this, but he's - putting it mildly - a spent force. I'd wager that his intervention will not help, and perhaps worsen, the remain cause.
The Brexit process
- Thread starter brogdale
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Blairs right (IMHO) on a lot of this, but he's - putting it mildly - a spent force. I'd wager that his intervention will not help, and perhaps worsen, the remain cause.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I thought this was the 'right-wing racist leave' argument, that us left leavers who never even advocated such were automatically tarred with the same brush by liberal remainers? Now the EU poster boy Blair's saying it, it's right?!
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The Fornicator
Active Member
For spent force, perhaps read 'toxic beyond redemption', though he is, at last, slowing reengaging with the reality.
It surely can't be wrong to consider the Ref vote a bargaining position - beyond all this high profile kerfuffle about how much to exit, you would hope the realists are looking at *reimagining* freedom of movement.
Or perhaps we're all spinning on a top until Merkel gets relected - probably a bit of both.
It surely can't be wrong to consider the Ref vote a bargaining position - beyond all this high profile kerfuffle about how much to exit, you would hope the realists are looking at *reimagining* freedom of movement.
Or perhaps we're all spinning on a top until Merkel gets relected - probably a bit of both.
There's EU countries with tougher immigration rules than ours.
Leaving the EU doesn't enhance our position, as it has been.
Same with rail. The UK has gone far beyond the EU law, in dismantling the system. It's why a lot of UK rail, is state owned. By EU states. Leaving the EU won't change that. It's an issue created by UK policy.
Leaving the EU doesn't enhance our position, as it has been.
Same with rail. The UK has gone far beyond the EU law, in dismantling the system. It's why a lot of UK rail, is state owned. By EU states. Leaving the EU won't change that. It's an issue created by UK policy.
teqniq
DisMembered
Scathing analysis here. Sometimes, well quite often I wonder what it will take to get rid of this bunch of chancers.
The Observer view on Tory ineptitude on Brexit negotiations | Observer editorial
The Observer view on Tory ineptitude on Brexit negotiations | Observer editorial
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It's not a leave argument, it's a remain argument. Half of UK immigration is non-EU (or was at the time of the referendum), and the UK has always been more generous to EU migrants than the EU requires. So there's plenty of scope to restrict immigration without leaving the EU if anyone is really determined to do it. It's a perfectly logical argument, but a poor intervention at this stage because it contains two proposals (stay in the EU, clamp down on immigration) which between them alienate the vast majority of the public, plus the whole thing is transparently unprincipled.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It's not likely to benefit, but how badly it will be affected will depend on the type of Brexit. Greece is (I think) the most subsidised country in the EU, so if and when the UK stops paying in to the CAP and structural budget, Greece probably stands to lose a few billion annually, all else being equal. Plus, whatever happens generally to the Eurozone will happen to Greece.
Subsidised, but not the most.
(Luxembourg is a weird outlier. The rest are countries with developing economies. Exit people, I assume, think the UK shouldn't subsidise them)
Why assume that?
It's a very broad, and therefore incorrect assumption.
Brexit, as was proposed, made two assumptions:
- There would be financial benefit (bus)
- Immigration would be reduced
Was there anything more than that?
(I know that there was an ideoligical issue. Greece was shafted by the EU, so we if the UK leaves, that will help Greece. I can't see Greece winning from this, but I don't have the facts to hand about their opportunity here)
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
It's using the same arguments (immigration control, freedom of movement, division between workers) as the right, but which are now ok because its those 'not-racist at all' and 'progressive' liberals using it as a desperate bid to remain.
And despite those of us left leavers all along making our arguments very clear that we want to dismantle the racist, austerity imposing, neoliberal EU superstate, but being constantly slurred as 'thicko racists' and 'getting into bed with the right' by liberal remainers, it turns out precisely as we always foresaw. That it would be the remain liberals/liberal-left that will actually say and do anything to uphold the rotten institution.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh the guardian were explicitly calling all leave voters thick racist chavs before 23/6/16
Do you think it will benefit Greece?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yep, utterly shameless.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I've long thought that Greece itself has to fall out of the EU, not merely the single currency to have any hope of improving its situation again, and for the benefit of the working class. The tit-for-tat austerity and reform that's fucking ordinary people over in return for more bailouts the country simply cannot afford and finance is just prolonging the crisis (its making those invested in EU institutions rich in the process though).
not-bono-ever
meh
Away with a diplomat at the minute. Apparently the British negotiation team situation is far far worse than the mess we are reading about in the press. There is no real plan. Panic stations behind closed doors
You astound me
But it's good to hear it confirmed.
not-bono-ever
meh
No link as is friend in the business
gosub
~#
Thats where you are going wrong. Bus/Immigration wasn't aimed at Leave voters but the undecideds, we Leavers gave you our justifications sepreately..
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And of course entirely neutral on the subject.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
My rough calculation is that if Brexit means EU budgets shrink by c.10% and Greece currently nets c.5 bn euros then they'd only lose 0.5bn euros.
not-bono-ever
meh
You know him as well ?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
No wonder they're looking so smug, then.
Just FWIW, my own figure would be around 0.8 billion, based on them getting a little over 6 billion annually and the UK's net contribution being 13%.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Today's offering from the Maquis:
Former Europe minister Caroline Flint to defy Labour whips on EU bill
Former Europe minister Caroline Flint to defy Labour whips on EU bill
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
is there a set limit as to how many times you can boy the three line whip off before its withdrawn or does this tend to be done on a case by case basis.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Depends if it's corbyn issuing it or defying it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Case by case, though I can't think of anyone who has lost it over a vote - or even a series of votes.
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