Should the death penalty be reintroduced in the UK?

[PTK]

Judicial execution is not a crime, by definition.

It could be a crime in international law.

 

[danny la rouge]

It could be a crime in international law.

Should be.

 

[PTK]

Should be.

It is, in some cases. "Judicial executions" in some countries are regarded by international bodies as being crimes, because the judicial process is regarded as being unjust.

 

[Spymaster]

That’s literally semantics.

How?

A crime is a criminal act which is punishable by law.

Now, I've a feeling that you might want to redefine it, but that doesn't make your definition correct!

 

[Elpenor]

Congratulations. This means you are more intelligent that at least 188 other posters on these boards.

On the subject of intelligence, if you deduct the number of votes for Yes from the total number of votes cast you get the total of number of votes for No

 

[seventh bullet]

Death isn't a deterrent to murderous violence in places where that option is available to their flawed and classist justice systems. Why bring it back? Prisons themselves aren't a deterrent. It's almost as if it all needs a radical overhaul. Society that is. But, this hot topic has been (forgive the pun) done to death here.

 

[danny la rouge]

How?

A crime is a criminal act which is punishable by law.

Now, I've a feeling that you might want to redefine it, but that doesn't make your definition correct!

Something being legal doesn’t make it right.

I’m you can quibble about my choice of the word crime. That’s fine, but it’s really not the point.

 

[Spymaster]

Something being legal doesn’t make it right.

No, but something being wrong, IYO, doesn't make it a crime.

 

[Spymaster]

I’m you can quibble about my choice of the word crime. That’s fine, but it’s really not the point.

Of course I'm going to quibble about it!

 

[danny la rouge]

No, but something being wrong, IYO, doesn't make it a crime.

Tomato tomato.

 

[Spymaster]

Tomato tomato.

Pilchard dolphin.

 

[emanymton]

Something being legal doesn’t make it right.

Hypnotising dogs for example, legal but very, very wrong.

 

[Pickman's model]

How?

A crime is a criminal act which is punishable by law.

Now, I've a feeling that you might want to redefine it, but that doesn't make your definition correct!

so it'd be your view that neither freisler nor the likes of vasily ukrikh were doing anything dubious by applying the law and sentencing people to death in germany or the soviet union respectively i suppose

 

[PTK]

Oh, they're white, so I doubt Farage & Co. will be jumping up and down.

Problem with extending the death penalty in rape cases, is it'll likely result in some victims being killed, if the penalty is the same, why not take out the main witness?

I am sure that such considerations came into play in this country when there were 200 capital offences, which I imagine is the origin of the expression " might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb".

 

[seventh bullet]

No, but something being wrong, IYO, doesn't make it a crime.

The people who hid Jewish fugitives in Nazi occupied Europe were breaking the law. Those who hunted them down were following it. The Law isn't some immutable thing but contingent on temporal social and political forces that can be changed along with the societies that are governed by the rules such forces create.

 

[Spymaster]

so it'd be your view that neither freisler nor the likes of vasily ukrikh were doing anything dubious by applying the law and sentencing people to death in germany or the soviet union respectively i suppose

An interesting supposition.

 

[PTK]

so it'd be your view that neither freisler nor the likes of vasily ukrikh were doing anything dubious by applying the law and sentencing people to death in germany or the soviet union respectively i suppose

I had not heard of these people. I note Ulrikh carried out some of the executions himself. That's what we need: hands-one judges.

 

[seventh bullet]

I had not heard of these people. I note Ulrikh carried out some of the executions himself. That's what we need: hands-one judges.

Kind of like Judge Dredd but without the understanding he's s an absurdist satire of authoritarianism.

 

[Spymaster]

The people who hid Jewish fugitives in Nazi occupied Europe were breaking the law. Those who hunted them down were following it. The Law isn't some immutable thing but contingent on temporal social and political forces that can be changed along with the societies that are governed by the rules such forces create.

This doesn't get us anywhere really. Nobody is going to argue that was any more morally correct than Sharia law which prescribes amputation. But that's not criminal either. Pilch would have been better of using immoral/unethical/etc. All are still subjective but much less factually incorrect.

If you're interested, one of the best books on Nazi law that I've come across is The Law in Nazi Germany: Ideology, Opportunism, and the Perversion of Justice which takes a look at how highly intelligent legal academics who were previously globally respected; developed arguably the most immoral legal framework the world has ever seen.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Among other misunderstandings, when making pronouncements about the factual correctness of the definition of words, you misunderstand the nature of language.

 

[Spymaster]

Among other misunderstandings, when making pronouncements about the factual correctness of the definition of words, you misunderstand the nature of language.

Always good to know we have you around to keep us on the linguistic straight and narrow then.

 

[PTK]

Always good to know we have you around to keep us on the linguistic straight and narrow then.

Does the straight way have to be narrow? Does that not cause congestion? Would it not be better to have a straight and wide way?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Always good to know we have you around to keep us on the linguistic straight and narrow then.

There isn't a linguistic straight and narrow. That's the point.

 

[Spymaster]

There isn't a linguistic straight and narrow. That's the point.

And I, for one, am jolly glad you've made it!

 

[Dystopiary]

How?

A crime is a criminal act which is punishable by law.

Now, I've a feeling that you might want to redefine it, but that doesn't make your definition correct!

Danny's use is consistent with at least one definition common to standard English dictionaries.

 

[Pickman's model]

Always good to know we have you around to keep us on the linguistic straight and narrow then.

No, that's maomao's role

 

[Spymaster]

No, that's maomao's role

(((lbj)))

 

[hash tag]

Some might argue that between the choice of an instant death penalty and a whole life sentence in a jail where they're going to be fearing for their safety every minute of the day, the latter option might be the most punitive.

If someone is locked up by society, they have a right to being locked up safely.
In the States, I believe death row prisoners are locked up in solitary confinement.

 

[maomao]

No, that's maomao's role

I'm syntax and phonology, happy for someone to hold up the other corner of the linguistic triangle. And he's right of course.

 

[A380]

Things can be wrong but legal and right but unlawful; just like you can have law without order and order without law.