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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

bimble said:
What made it possible for you then, that thing that 'the likes of Eileen' would never dream of? Do you think she doesn't know anyone who wants to or has retired in Spain because only posh people do that?
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What made it possible for me Bimble?
Well to be honest I never really had any ambition or dream to live abroad aside from when I was young and had a period of looking at the adverts in the magazines in the Sunday's papers for wooden houses overlooking lakes somewhere in America and thinking that would be great. Never did any good on languages, never had a skill or type of job ( aside from a couple of years building work ) that would transfer abroad. Used to like going on holiday and as the years went by every now and again I'd say to the missus when we retire I'd love us to rent somewhere in Spain or Portugal for three months. That really was it tbh.

What made it possible was that my wife died within a year of being diagnosed with cancer tbh. The kids had left during the previous three years and I suppose someone dies who you are very close to it makes you think about your own mortality and what you might do with the rest of your life. So I decided that I didn't want to stay in the house, didn't want to do the same job, and wanted to do something completely different. It was then that I thought why not go abroad and try living there for six months. .So I put a request for redundancy into the two year cycle at the Council, put half my salary into an additional pension, sold the house at the end of the two years , took the redundancy and early pension and just went. With hindsight, it was probably running away tbh. Hope that explains things.
 
I apologize for the phrasing editor but not the sentiment. I could have chosen my words more carefully but it's very frustrating that on urban, which is one of the most politically aware, articulate and informed places on the internet the tedious trope of laying all the bullshit of Brexit at the feet of those who voted to leave for whatever reason is at so at odds with that aware, articulate and informed tone.

I get you're fucked off with what Brexit means to and for you but I'm just asking you to align your sights to 2021.
 
bimble said:
What was it that made leaving the customs union an important thing for the government when they were interpreting the referendum result? Why did that become a red line what’s the hoped-for benefit?
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My understanding is this - it may be wrong:

Customs union means solid commitment to an alignment with EU standards - absolute level playing field.
You don't need to do a customs check if everyone has the same standards.
That remains the case now post Brexit for export to the EU - the standards must be met, though there are now tarifs, paperwork etc. to make sure no one is fiddling.

But that also includes what we in the UK IMPORT.

"The customs union means that EU countries apply the same tariffs to imported goods from the rest of the world. Trade deals are negotiated by Brussels on behalf of the (currently) 28 members, although governments agree the mandate and approve the final deal. The EU has trade deals covering 69 countries, including Canada and South Korea, which the UK is struggling to roll over to bilateral agreements.

Proponents of an independent UK trade policy, such as the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, say Britain must forge its own deals if it is to take advantage of the world’s fast-growing economies. “Free to trade with the whole world” was one of the five promises of the Vote Leave manifesto of 2016."


So by leaving the Customs Union the UK can do new trade deals and import things on different terms than when in the EU, including at a lower standard than previously.
 
editor said:
You come across as the sort of person who posts up really unpleasant and thoroughly dishonest personal slurs. I hope you have the dignity to apologise.
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And you're coming across as the sort of person who posts ridiculously stereotypical attacks on everyone ("Brexiteers", "ex-pats" etc, etc) who doesn't agree with you, then takes offense at comments which you claim mean something that they clearly don't.

You did it to me the other day, and now you've done it again.

I'd like to think you had the dignity to apologise for both, but it really doesn't look like you even realise that's what you're doing.
 
ska invita said:
My understanding is this - it may be wrong:

Customs unions means solid commitment to an alignment with EU standards - absolute level playing field.
You don't need to do a customs check if everyone has the same standards.
That remains the case now post Brexit for export to the EU - the standards must be met, though there are now tarifs, paperwork etc.

But that also includes what we in the UK IMPORT.

"The customs union means that EU countries apply the same tariffs to imported goods from the rest of the world. Trade deals are negotiated by Brussels on behalf of the (currently) 28 members, although governments agree the mandate and approve the final deal. The EU has trade deals covering 69 countries, including Canada and South Korea, which the UK is struggling to roll over to bilateral agreements.

Proponents of an independent UK trade policy, such as the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, say Britain must forge its own deals if it is to take advantage of the world’s fast-growing economies. “Free to trade with the whole world” was one of the five promises of the Vote Leave manifesto of 2016."


So by leaving the Customs Union the UK can do new trade deals and import things on different terms than when in the EU, including at a lower standard than previously.
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As can be seen by the level of our politicians who now operate on lower standards even than they did while we were in the eu
 
teuchter said:
I agree that it's unfair to expect urban's anarchist and anti-capitalist types to have foreseen how things would turn out and they shouldn't be given hassle for getting it wrong. The tens of millions of people who did think it would go this way were just incredibly lucky in their guess.
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I think you'll find that most anti-capitalist types said it could be made to work, but under a tory government it would be implemented appallingly. And so it has proven.
 
Supine said:
Brexiteers now enjoy their political freedom by asking EU governments for permission to go on holiday. Brexit bonus.
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How does that work Supine ? Do Brexiteers have to contact someone in each of the EU states or has the EU come up with some sort of central clearing house for applications for holidays ?
 
ska invita said:
My understanding is this - it may be wrong:

Customs union means solid commitment to an alignment with EU standards - absolute level playing field.
You don't need to do a customs check if everyone has the same standards.
That remains the case now post Brexit for export to the EU - the standards must be met, though there are now tarifs, paperwork etc. to make sure no one is fiddling.

But that also includes what we in the UK IMPORT.

"The customs union means that EU countries apply the same tariffs to imported goods from the rest of the world. Trade deals are negotiated by Brussels on behalf of the (currently) 28 members, although governments agree the mandate and approve the final deal. The EU has trade deals covering 69 countries, including Canada and South Korea, which the UK is struggling to roll over to bilateral agreements.

Proponents of an independent UK trade policy, such as the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, say Britain must forge its own deals if it is to take advantage of the world’s fast-growing economies. “Free to trade with the whole world” was one of the five promises of the Vote Leave manifesto of 2016."


So by leaving the Customs Union the UK can do new trade deals and import things on different terms than when in the EU, including at a lower standard than previously.
Click to expand...

It looked to me that a big reason for leave was ending free movement. The leave campaign sold themselves on buccaneering trade deals. Neither of those things were possible whilst in the single market or customs union. Theresa May, fuckwit that she is came out with red line nonsense that included leaving the customs union and single market. Forget the trade deal fantasies, the freedom of movement of goods and people is core to the EU, but the U.K. was also important to it, so much so that a way to have A customs union with the EU and some kind of access to the single market without freedom of movement could very much have been negotiated. Until May said THAT.
 
belboid said:
I think you'll find that most anti-capitalist types said it could be made to work, but under a tory government it would be implemented appallingly. And so it has proven.
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Like I say, the tens of millions of people who guessed it would probably end up being implemented under a Tory government were just remarkably lucky when they took that complete stab in the dark.
 
teuchter said:
Like I say, the tens of millions of people who guessed it would probably end up being implemented under a Tory government were just remarkably lucky when they took that complete stab in the dark.
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Mostly people have moved on from this shit teuchter. Especially as years ago it was noted that the options were Tory leave or Tory remain, the sarky sneering makes you look outdated, drag yourself in to 2021.
 
belboid said:
aah, proportion is quite different to amount. I must admit I'm not quite sure what that 25% figure for the UK means, it obviously isnt that 25% of Britons live overseas or that the UK population is 25% immigrant.
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Yes, its a bit puzzling but I looked on the ONS site where they took the data from, and by way of explanation they say "The EU has not been the most common destination for Brits choosing to emigrate; 33% of all British-born emigrants living outside the UK in 2017 lived in Australia or New Zealand, 28% lived in the US or Canada and 26% in the EU – of which 6% lived in Ireland. "
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Oh bollocks. A few people have been coming out with this as if it were some impossible dream for the masses. There will be plenty of older people who have no intention of ever upping sticks to live and work in another country, but there are millions of young people of all socio-economic classes for whom it is absolutely an option, and that's reflected in the way young people voted.
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I'm sure there are young people for whom it is absolutely an option, and in some cases no doubt a rite, and that may or may not have been reflected in the way they vote. I'm not sure however that there are millions and I'm not sure that people only vote from a position of self-interest . What I can't fathom out though is why you aren't familiar with people who do feel it's an impossible dream to live abroad or work abroad or that they will trade with other countries and often whose main experience of Europe is a holiday. or football or the Eurovision Song Contest. For them, which most of my family and relations are like and a large chunk of my friends, aside from some ex work people, they feel they aren't going anywhere really not just in Europe but in life generally. So the freedom to do abc under the EU for them is abstract.
 
The39thStep said:
What I can't fathom out though is why you aren't familiar with people who do feel it's an impossible dream to live abroad or work abroad or that they will trade with other countries
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Trade with other countries, no, few people would think of that. But try your luck somewhere in Europe or elsewhere in the world? Yes, I'm familiar with many people who have done that, and I'm not talking about rich or highly qualified people but people who take whatever job they can get wherever it is they go. People from all walks of life do it all the time.

Brexit doesn't make it impossible, of course. But it does make it harder. And that's not a good thing.
 
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I live on a council estate in the Red Wall and if I think about people here who have lived and worked abroad there's a higher hitrate than stereotype would suggest.

I'm the end house on my terrace, a little posher than my neighbours, but I lived and worked in France for a year. The couple who lived here before us retired to Spain. He was a lorry driver, so freedom of movement was obviously a benefit to him in his work. Next door is a metalworker who lived and worked in Holland for ten years. Two doors down is an unemployed single mother who lived and worked in Australia for five years. Three doors down have never lived abroad. Four doors down I don't know that well. Five doors down are a Nigerian family with relatives still over there. Six doors down is half Indian, works in a supermarket and is saving to spend a year in India (she's been saying this for about 10 years, though, so who knows if it will ever happen).

Might be unrepresentative of the country as a whole, I don't know.
 
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British stores could be flooded with “dangerous” bacon and ham from the US, marketed under misleading labels, as the result of a transatlantic trade deal, says the author of a new book based on a decade of investigation into the food industry.

The meat has been cured with nitrites extracted from vegetables, a practice not permitted by the European Commission because of evidence that it increases the risk of bowel cancer. But it is allowed in the US, where the product is often labelled as “all natural”. The powerful US meat industry is likely to insist that the export of nitrite-cured meat is a condition of a post-Brexit UK-US trade deal, which the UK government is under intense pressure to delive
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UK-US Brexit trade deal ‘could fill supermarkets with cancer-risk bacon’ | Food safety | The Guardian

Fears of illness over nitrites used in US but currently banned in Britain and EU
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
None of the top ten things the Uk exports to America are things you eat (apart from some medicines).
Being elbowed into consuming a whole range of foods with increased health risks seems a really shit exchange, for people who live here, in return for lower tariffs for the floggers of high tech machinery gemstones & fine art. :(
 
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