The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[quiet guy]

The unexpected consequences of Brexit hit Samantha Cameron

 

[gentlegreen]

UK
January 28, 2021 12:32 PM
Exclusive: UK will apply to trans-Pacific trade bloc before publishing economic impact - officials

<>

Since leaving the EU, Britain has made clear its desire to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which removes most tariffs between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

Exclusive: UK will apply to trans-Pacific trade bloc before publishing economic impact - officials

Britain will submit a request to join a trans-Pacific trading bloc grouping 11 countries before it has published an assessment of the benefits of membership, British officials told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

 

[TopCat]

TopCat are you really this fragile in your victory that even vaccine wars are about how mean to you those nasty RemoAnerS are?

You dont seem to have read the thread. The reality of dealing with the EU post brexit seems to have quietened down support for a federal europe.
Or does this debacle over vaccines give you more faith?

 

[ska invita]

Since leaving the EU, Britain has made clear its desire to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which removes most tariffs between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

Australia, Canada,New Zealand the particularly important ones to the CANZUKers.

 

[Pingety Pong]

Can you post a link? That's not my understanding at all.

I read that a contact was signed that all AZ

AstraZeneca decide where they send their vaccines. The UK hasn't blocked any exports.

As I understand it the government has put a clause into the AZ contract that says all vaccines produced in Britain will go to British people first. Which is why the EU is now threatening to do the same with vaccines produced in Belgium. Sorry, too busy teaching the children of the Great British Public right now to provide sources but that has been widely reported.

 

[brogdale]

UK
January 28, 2021 12:32 PM
Exclusive: UK will apply to trans-Pacific trade bloc before publishing economic impact - officials

<>

Since leaving the EU, Britain has made clear its desire to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which removes most tariffs between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

Exclusive: UK will apply to trans-Pacific trade bloc before publishing economic impact - officials

Britain will submit a request to join a trans-Pacific trading bloc grouping 11 countries before it has published an assessment of the benefits of membership, British officials told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

View attachment 251893

I'm no geographical determinist, but when your landmass doesn't even appear on a map of the proposed trade agreement...surely there's a bit of a clue in that?

 

[Yossarian]

I'm no geographical determinist, but when your landmass doesn't even appear on a map of the proposed trade agreement...surely there's a bit of a clue in that?

View attachment 251895

Maybe they're using Pitcairn Island to argue that Britain is a Pacific nation.

 

[TopCat]

I read that a contact was signed that all AZ


As I understand it the government has put a clause into the AZ contract that says all vaccines produced in Britain will go to British people first. Which is why the EU is now threatening to do the same with vaccines produced in Belgium. Sorry, too busy teaching the children of the Great British Public right now to provide sources but that has been widely reported.

I feel sorry for the children given your rational. There is no evidence this assertion is true.

 

[Winot]

You dont seem to have read the thread. The reality of dealing with the EU post brexit seems to have quietened down support for a federal europe.
Or does this debacle over vaccines give you more faith?

Tedious strawman nonsense.

1. Few on here were arguing for a federal Europe.
2. None on here believed the EU were angels of propriety.

I suggest you go and play on Twitter with some FBPE types if that’s your level of debate.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sorry, too busy teaching the children of the Great British Public right now to provide sources but that has been widely reported.

 

[bimble]

You dont seem to have read the thread. The reality of dealing with the EU post brexit seems to have quietened down support for a federal europe.
Or does this debacle over vaccines give you more faith?

Er. I was just looking at this very dramatic post of yours, which I found kind of funny and a bit pathetic.

The headlines have been mental and thousands of lives are being directly threatened. But hey. At least most of the fans of an engorged sorry enlarged EU have had the good grace to cease with the abuse.

To answer though, none of this grim vaccine stuff seems surprising really, in the circumstances. And it has not suddenly opened my eyes to the evilness of the EU, or of our own Gov.

 

[Yossarian]

As I understand it the government has put a clause into the AZ contract that says all vaccines produced in Britain will go to British people first.

Yep, that seems to be what AZ's chief executive has been saying.

Soriot said Downing Street would have first claim on the doses manufactured in the UK and that the EU would have to wait. “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one,” he said. “As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go for the UK first. Basically, that’s how it is.”

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall

www.theguardian.com

 

[bimble]

That weird phrasing is why I think the contracts will be published. ‘The uk government said’ isn’t how contracts work is it?

 

[The39thStep]

€1.78

Think what has happened is that AZ have had production issues which mean they are not producing the quantity of vaccine they projected/promised. So they are unable to fulfil both their UK and EU contracts. They are choosing (and it almost certainly is a commercial choice) to fulfil the UK contract at the EU's expense because (a) that way they are only in breach of one contract, not two and (b) the unit price the UK is paying will be substantially higher than the EU would pay. We don't know by how much, but it could easily be as high as a nine-figure difference in total.

The BBC estimated the cost of the AZ vaccine to the UK government as £3 , the leaked EU prices from the Belgium MEP put the EU price as €1.78 which is around £1.60

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Regarding the export block, as I understand it (based on something I read somewhere yesterday so maybe wrong) the UK put an export block on some medical supplies which were at the time being used for treatment (no idea if these are ones which are still being used or if they've been put aside now), rather than the actual vaccines which at the time were still being tested. The EU I think is pointing to that as an example of the general principle, although if they did block vaccine exports it obviously wouldn't be in response to that.

 

[Spymaster]

I read that a contact was signed that all AZ


As I understand it the government has put a clause into the AZ contract that says all vaccines produced in Britain will go to British people first. Which is why the EU is now threatening to do the same with vaccines produced in Belgium. Sorry, too busy teaching the children of the Great British Public right now to provide sources but that has been widely reported.

'The government has put clauses into the AZ contract'?

You can't seriously make that statement, say that it's been widely reported and expect people to just accept that without citing even one of the sources that are "widely reporting" it. You're arguing something that absolutely nobody else is, as far as I can tell.

This beef is about AZ committing to making their "best efforts" to supply a number of vaccines to the EU (who have yet to approve said vaccine). AZ have now told the EU that due to production issues in Belgian and Dutch facilities they will be unable to deliver on time and are 2 months behind schedule. AZ say that they signed a contract to deliver to the UK, a full 3 months before they signed one to commit their "best efforts" to supplying the EU.

This is a contractual dispute between AstraZeneca and the European Union, not a political one between the UK and the EU, as you are trying to spin it.

Read this: Subscribe to read | Financial Times

 

[Anju]

From what I can tell the EU believe that AZ have been moving supplies from Belgian plant to UK, hence the inspection of the factory. If that's the case then AZ are most likely in breach of their contact.

Yes the public posturing from a few people on EU side isn't helpful but seeking to enforce the terms of a contract, especially when overall the result will be more lives saved isn't unreasonable. Surprised people here are supportive of a company making a commercial decision to prioritise supply for optimum profit over equitable distribution for the sake of anti EU point scoring.

 

[Spymaster]

Yep, that seems to be what AZ's chief executive has been saying.

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall

www.theguardian.com

You say yes then post something which refutes that. The head of AZ is saying that the UK government signed a contract to deliver vaccines 3 months before the EU. The AZ vaccine produced in the UK has been going to UK citizens and will continue to do so. The upcoming production shortages are due to AZ facilities in Holland and Belgium under-producing. The EU is saying that vaccine produced in UK facilities should be diverted (by AstraZeneca) away from UK citizens and into the EU program on the one hand, whilst on the other hand threatening to reduce or completely prevent exports of the Pfizer vaccine (and possibly blocking exports of the Dutch and Belgian made AZ vaccine) to the UK from Europe. That's nuts. And this is before the UK has completed its initial program of vaccinating its own most vulnerable.

 

[gentlegreen]

Maybe they're using Pitcairn Island to argue that Britain is a Pacific nation.

Now you're giving me ideas ...

 

[andysays]

From what I can tell the EU believe that AZ have been moving supplies from Belgian plant to UK, hence the inspection of the factory. If that's the case then AZ are most likely in breach of their contact.

Yes the public posturing from a few people on EU side isn't helpful but seeking to enforce the terms of a contract, especially when overall the result will be more lives saved isn't unreasonable. Surprised people here are supportive of a company making a commercial decision to prioritise supply for optimum profit over equitable distribution for the sake of anti EU point scoring.

Can you explain why you think more lives will be saved if vaccine is diverted from Britain to the EU?

 

[Yossarian]

You say yes then post something which refutes that. The head of AZ is saying that the UK government signed a contract to deliver vaccines 3 months before the EU. The AZ vaccine produced in the UK has been going to UK citizens and will continue to do so. The production shortages are due to AZ facilities in Holland and Belgium under-producing. The EU is saying that vaccine produced in UK facilities should be diverted (by AstraZeneca) away from UK citizens and into the EU program on the one hand, whilst on the other hand threatening to reduce or completely prevent exports of the Pfizer vaccine to the UK from Europe. That's nuts. And this is before the UK has completed its initial program of vaccinating its own most vulnerable.

People are arguing that this is a contractual dispute between the company and the EU with no British government involvement, which doesn't seem to be the case - Gove said yesterday that the government wouldn't allow AZ to send vaccines to Europe.

Pressed on whether the government will allow vaccines to go to the EU, he said: "No"

Covid: UK vaccine supplies 'won't be interrupted' - Gove

A row over vaccine shortages has seen the EU demand AstraZeneca supply it with doses from UK plants.

www.bbc.com

 

[Pickman's model]

From what I can tell the EU believe that AZ have been moving supplies from Belgian plant to UK, hence the inspection of the factory. If that's the case then AZ are most likely in breach of their contact.

They have. It was in the newspapers last month.

 

[Spymaster]

People are arguing that this is a contractual dispute between the company and the EU with no British government involvement, which doesn't seem to be the case - Gove said yesterday that the government wouldn't allow AZ to send vaccines to Europe.

Covid: UK vaccine supplies 'won't be interrupted' - Gove

A row over vaccine shortages has seen the EU demand AstraZeneca supply it with doses from UK plants.

www.bbc.com

That's not the contractual issue. He was asked if he would allow vaccines that the UK has already bought and paid for, and are being manufactured in the UK, to be sent to the EU before the UK has vaccinated its own most vulnerable. Given the EU's stance and their stated intent to block EU produced vaccine being exported here 'if necessary', he quite reasonably said "no".

Read the FT piece that I linked to above.

 

[Anju]

Can you explain why you think more lives will be saved if vaccine is diverted from Britain to the EU?

Because the mortality rate increases with age so if we vaccinate a greater percentage of our population at the expense of other countries overall more people will die because the most vulnerable in other countries will be waiting longer.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can you explain why you think more lives will be saved if vaccine is diverted from Britain to the EU?

The most lives would be saved with equitable distribution across the entire planet. Sadly that isn't going to happen. Equitable distribution across the whole of Europe (inc UK) would also help, given we're all basically in the same mess right now.

From what I can tell, nobody is coming out of this looking good atm.

 

[teuchter]

Can you explain why you think more lives will be saved if vaccine is diverted from Britain to the EU?

Any supplies that are diverted from somewhere further ahead with vaccination, to somewhere further behind, would likely save more lives, assuming both places are pursuing a policy of protecting the most vulnerable people first.

 

[Pickman's model]

Any supplies that are diverted from somewhere further ahead with vaccination, to somewhere further behind, would likely save more lives, assuming both places are pursuing a policy of protecting the most vulnerable people first.

You seem to be assuming no other protective methods being employed

 

[xenon]

Yep, that seems to be what AZ's chief executive has been saying.

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall

www.theguardian.com

That isn't the same as all AZ vaccine produced in the UK goes to the UK only is it.

It's the party who signed a contract to buy x amount first, gets x first. Which is boringly normal.

As for the Daily Mail, no one should be reading it.

 

[gosub]

This is nonsense, I'm afraid.

Shame than that your dismissal is bollocks. EU wants full recognition for UK envoy in post-Brexit spat.

 

[andysays]

Because the mortality rate increases with age so if we vaccinate a greater percentage of our population at the expense of other countries overall more people will die because the most vulnerable in other countries will be waiting longer.

Germany at least has only approved the AZ vaccine for under 65s, so I'm not sure this argument really works

ETA under, not over