The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[bimble]

the delivery schedule is redacted quite lot . Twitter says its AZ who has done the redactions.

 

[Smangus]

the delivery schedule is redacted quite lot . Twitter says its AZ who has done the redactions.

View attachment 251905

So wheres Assange and Wikileaks when you need them eh?

 

[prunus]

told you so etc

One of the things I do for a living is read these sorts of things - so on a quick scan this clause leaps out as being germane to the should AZ send vaccines manufactured in the UK to the EU question.

 

[sleaterkinney]

anyway sleaterkinney i'm seeing no mention of these 'four sites'

It's in schedule A of the contract.

 

[teuchter]

 

[Spymaster]

well, this bit of the contract between AZ & the EU looks like it definitely isnt a case of -the vaccines made in the UK are not to be used for EU export.
View attachment 251903

Its the UK's turn to publish their contract now.

I don't think this says what you're suggesting. It doesn't oblige AZ to supply the EU from the UK supply chain. It allows them to manufacture the vaccine in the UK as well as in the EU.

Here's the rest of the clause:



The intention of the clause is clearly regarding which countries AstraZeneca is allowed to manufacture the vaccines in. Not which countries AstraZeneca must supply the European Union from.

 

[teuchter]

That section 5.4 looks to me like it's mainly aimed at saying AZ shouldn't be manufacturing stuff outside of the EU/UK unless it really has to.

It's not addressing the question of whether vaccine manufactured in the UK should go to one or other place preferentially.

 

[bimble]

Obviously we are all contract lawyers now, just as yesterday we were all virologists. Given that, my expert opinion is that it looks really messy and unclear, and quite possibly the company will have turned out to have signed two incompatible agreements by mistake.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's in schedule A of the contract.

it appears von der leyen mistaken then

 

[Spymaster]

That section 5.4 looks to me like it's mainly aimed at saying AZ shouldn't be manufacturing stuff outside of the EU/UK unless it really has to.

It's not addressing the question of whether vaccine manufactured in the UK should go to one or other place preferentially.

See? Even teuchter gets it!

 

[Spymaster]

Obviously we are all contract lawyers now ...

Well no, but we can all read

 

[sleaterkinney]

it appears von leyen mistaken then

The names are redacted but it mentions UK sites.

 

[bimble]

I don't think this says what you're suggesting. It doesn't oblige AZ to supply the EU from the UK supply chain. It allows them to manufacture the vaccine in the UK as well as in the EU.

Here's the rest of the clause:

View attachment 251909

The intention of the clause is clearly regarding which countries AstraZeneca is allowed to manufacture the vaccines in. Not which countries AstraZeneca must supply the European Union from.

But, that stuff about where they can manufacture is located within a contract between the EU and the vaccine company. So yes it is about where the vaccines the EU is buying will come from.
It’s not about where they AZ can manufacture in general.

 

[Pickman's model]

The names are redacted but it mentions UK sites.

yes. and 3 sites not 2. and not 2 making the drug as i read it, 2 making preparatory substances (drug substance manufacture) and 1 making the thing (drug product manufacture).

 

[bimble]

She is wrong about it being crystal clear but

EU leaves UK off exempt list for tighter vaccine export controls

Health commissioner says bloc needs to ensure pharmaceutical firms live up to their promises

www.theguardian.com

 

[Spymaster]

But, that stuff about where they can manufacture is located within a contract between the EU and the vaccine company. So yes it is about where the vaccines the EU is buying will come from.
It’s not about where they AZ can manufacture in general.

That clause says that AZ must manufacture the vaccine in the EU or the UK. It goes on to say that if it's necessary to accelerate supply, they can manufacture it outside the EU and UK, but they have to provide the Union with a written explanation of why they are using non-EU/UK facilities. That's it. It's not an agreement to supply the EU from UK facilities.

 

[Spymaster]

She is wrong about it being crystal clear but

EU leaves UK off exempt list for tighter vaccine export controls

Health commissioner says bloc needs to ensure pharmaceutical firms live up to their promises

www.theguardian.com

Well if she's relying on 5.4 she's just wrong. It says nothing of the sort. There might be something somewhere else in the contract and I'm reading it now, but so much is redacted it's hard to say.

 

[Pickman's model]

That clause says that AZ must manufacture the vaccine in the EU or the UK. It goes on to say that if it's necessary to accelerate supply, they can manufacture it outside the EU and UK, but they have to provide the Union with a written explanation of why they are using non-EU/UK facilities. That's it. It's not an agreement to supply the EU from UK facilities.

not to mention von der leyen seems to be having difficulty counting

 

[bimble]

That clause says that AZ must manufacture the vaccine in the EU or the UK. It goes on to say that if it's necessary to accelerate supply, they can manufacture it outside the EU and UK, but they have to provide the Union with a written explanation of why they are using non-EU/UK facilities. That's it. It's not an agreement to supply the EU from UK facilities.

That doesn’t make any sense.
it’s an agreement to supply the EU from various manufacturing plants including those located in the UK. Why else is the Uk manufacturing plants mentioned in the contract between AZ and EU?

Ursula might be wrong but so are you.

 

[TopCat]

She is wrong about it being crystal clear but

EU leaves UK off exempt list for tighter vaccine export controls

Health commissioner says bloc needs to ensure pharmaceutical firms live up to their promises

www.theguardian.com

Her use of the word "supposed" reminded me of an Urban spat about "should".

 

[Serge Forward]

A discussion on inter-capitalist contract law... excellent! Which side are you on?

 

[teuchter]

That doesn’t make any sense.
it’s an agreement to supply the EU from various manufacturing plants including those located in the UK. Why else is the Uk manufacturing plants mentioned in the contract between AZ and EU?

It's an agreement that AZ can use plants located in the UK. It doesn't say anything about whether AZ is obliged to use stuff made in the UK to supply the EU.

5.1 seems more relevant.



AZ has to use its best efforts to manufacture the EU doses "within the EU".

The UK is not in the EU.

Moving supply from the UK to the EU is not "manufacturing within the EU" so it's not something they have to make an effort to do, according to this contract.

 

[ska invita]

Can this go on a separate thread?
I want to read what fish people like to eat

 

[Pickman's model]

That doesn’t make any sense.
it’s an agreement to supply the EU from various manufacturing plants including those located in the UK. Why else is the Uk manufacturing plants mentioned in the contract between AZ and EU?

edited: surprisingly teuchter makes a good point

 

[bimble]

It's an agreement that AZ can use plants located in the UK. It doesn't say anything about whether AZ is obliged to use stuff made in the UK to supply the EU.

5.1 seems more relevant.

View attachment 251913

AZ has to use its best efforts to manufacture the EU doses "within the EU".

The UK is not in the EU.

Moving supply from the UK to the EU is not "manufacturing within the EU" so it's not something they have to make an effort to do, according to this contract.

But it says Uk is in the EU ‘for the purposes of clause 5.4?
Why does it say that then? I don’t know obvs.

 

[Spymaster]

it’s an agreement to supply the EU from various manufacturing plants including those located in the UK. Why else is the Uk manufacturing plants mentioned in the contract between AZ and EU?

Because the UK is not in the EU.

Ursula might be wrong but so are you.

I don't think so. That clause is pretty straightforward in it's intent.

 

[kebabking]

She is wrong about it being crystal clear but

EU leaves UK off exempt list for tighter vaccine export controls

Health commissioner says bloc needs to ensure pharmaceutical firms live up to their promises

www.theguardian.com

She was an astonishingly poor German Defence Minister before she went off to the EU - in 'Things That Look Familiar' she was fond of making grandeous statements and then making a mess, if she made anything, of the implementation...

 

[Pickman's model]

Can this go on a separate thread?
I want to read what fish people like to eat

the kippered herring is my favourite

 

[Spymaster]

But it says Uk is in the EU ‘for the purposes of clause 5.4?

And what is the purpose of 5.4?

 

[teuchter]

But it says Uk is in the EU ‘for the purposes of clause 5.4?

5.1 is not part of 5.4.