The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[kabbes]

But it says Uk is in the EU ‘for the purposes of clause 5.4?

And 5.4 only, not clause 5.1

 

[bimble]

God I’m glad I’m not a contract lawyer.

 

[Spymaster]

God I’m glad I’m not a contract lawyer.

We all are

 

[Pickman's model]

A discussion on inter-capitalist contract law... excellent! Which side are you on?

we discuss lots of things to do with capitalists here. if you object to the discussion perhaps you could make your objections rather clearer.

 

[kabbes]

I agree with teuchter and Spymaster and when all three of us are actually aligned on something, you can be sure it really must be transparently and unambiguously true.

 

[The39thStep]

Isn't the other issue here that the delivery schedule is estimated because of the best effort wording rather than having an agreed delivery schedule

 

[andysays]

Are we at war with Eurasia yet?

 

[Pickman's model]

Ursula might be wrong but so are you.

on first name terms now i see

 

[teuchter]

There's quite a few references elsewhere like



where it seems to make fairly clear that what this agreement is about, is the production and purchase of stuff within the EU.

By the way somewhere else I noticed it said "Europe" instead of EU which strikes me as sloppy drafting, unless it's intentional for some reason.

 

[sleaterkinney]

What do we make of 13.1 ( E ) then?

 

[bimble]

on first name terms now i see

Just too hard to spelll.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's quite a few references elsewhere like

View attachment 251914

where it seems to make fairly clear that what this agreement is about, is the production and purchase of stuff within the EU.

By the way somewhere else I noticed it said "Europe" instead of EU which strikes me as sloppy drafting, unless it's intentional for some reason.

sloppy drafting

 

[two sheds]

One of the things I do for a living is read these sorts of things - so on a quick scan this clause leaps out as being germane to the should AZ send vaccines manufactured in the UK to the EU question.

View attachment 251907

You’re all wrong. It’s clearly saying that AZ must ███████████ and that the EU must likewise █████████████ unless the UK can █████████.before next Wednesday.

 

[kabbes]

God I’m glad I’m not a contract lawyer.

Compared to a lot I’ve had to read, this part of this contract is actually refreshingly straightforward!

 

[teuchter]

I agree with teuchter and Spymaster and when all three of us are actually aligned on something, you can be sure it really must be transparently and unambiguously true.

That or it's a very sinister conspiracy.

 

[Johnny Doe]

What do we make of 13.1 ( E ) then

Not as good as E17

 

[kabbes]

What do we make of 13.1 ( E ) then?

View attachment 251916

That seems like a pretty straightforward warranty that the contract is undertaken in good faith?

 

[teuchter]

What do we make of 13.1 ( E ) then?

View attachment 251916

I don't think that an obligation to supply the UK from UK sites is in conflict with an obligation to supply the EU from EU sites.

Unless the delays at the EU sites are a direct result of, say, diverting resources to the UK sites.

 

[Serge Forward]

we discuss lots of things to do with capitalists here. if you object to the discussion perhaps you could make your objections rather clearer.

It's not so much the discussion, it's the taking sides bit.

 

[teuchter]

Compared to a lot I’ve had to read, this part of this contract is actually refreshingly straightforward!

I would say that I find this contract easier to understand than the guidance for the Self Assessment tax forms I had to wade through the other week. Or certain parts of the UK building regulations Approved Documents.

 

[Anju]

I don't think that an obligation to supply the UK from UK sites is in conflict with an obligation to supply the EU from EU sites.

Unless the delays at the EU sites are a direct result of, say, diverting resources to the UK sites.

That's what the head of the law society is saying, though based on the wording in a previously published vaccine supply contract.

AstraZeneca may have to renegotiate vaccine contracts, say experts

Company may be in danger of breaching contracts to supply EU and UK due to production problem

amp.theguardian.com

 

[The39thStep]

A discussion on inter-capitalist contract law... excellent! Which side are you on?

 

[teuchter]

That's what the head of the law society is saying, though based on the wording in a previously published vaccine supply contract.

AstraZeneca may have to renegotiate vaccine contracts, say experts

Company may be in danger of breaching contracts to supply EU and UK due to production problem

amp.theguardian.com

David Greene, the president of the Law Society and a senior partner at Edwin Coe, where he litigates contracts, said: “If they [AZ] gave assurances that they made reasonable best efforts to supply the EU but were in fact diverting material from one place to another, that would on the face of it be a potential breach of obligations to use reasonable best efforts.”

I'd agree if they are in fact diverting material from one place to the other. But is there any evidence they are doing that?

 

[SpookyFrank]

God I’m glad I’m not a contract lawyer.

The uglier the mess, the more you get paid.

 

[Anju]

I'd agree if they are in fact diverting material from one place to the other. But is there any evidence they are doing that?

I think that's why they went to inspect the Belgian plant so we should know in a couple of days.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's what the head of the law society is saying, though based on the wording in a previously published vaccine supply contract.

AstraZeneca may have to renegotiate vaccine contracts, say experts

Company may be in danger of breaching contracts to supply EU and UK due to production problem

amp.theguardian.com

Contract lawyer says 'you're gonna need a contract lawyer'

 

[Spymaster]

Isn't the other issue here that the delivery schedule is estimated because of the best effort wording rather than having an agreed delivery schedule

It's difficult to tell because it's so heavily redacted and the fact they've defined "best efforts" in the definitions and interpretations doesn't really help either.




Just fucking waffle, isn't it?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

But we know, don't we, that bits of these contracts are confidential? Might there not also be bits which are not only confidential but secret? In which case how can we be certain of anything?

 

[bimble]

So people like this

Is the general consensus here that they’re just wrong about the contract or that they’re lying ?

 

[SpookyFrank]

So people like this
View attachment 251918
Is the general consensus here that they’re just wrong about the contract or that they’re lying ?

'Forseen' in this context seems to mean 'assumed'.