The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[not a trot]

Some more fish people having problems with non tariff barriers.

UK fishermen halting exports to EU as ‘catastrophic’ Brexit bureaucracy renders business unviable

Perishable seafood first casualty of Boris Johnson’s new trade barriers

www.independent.co.uk

Shapps is keeping his eye on things, so nothing to worry about.

 

[Brainaddict]

Turns out the 'tariff-free' agreement isn't always so much Firms including M&S suspend EU exports over Brexit smallprint

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Trouble is that people mistake tariffs for duty and tax. Tariffs are imposed on top of these - wto rules etc. Now we are out of the SM tax and duty are charged even if we are tariff free.

Doesn't have to be, the UK government and the EU choose to add tax and duty to certain goods as they cross borders, equally they can choose for the rate of tax and duty to be zero should they wish.

 

[Artaxerxes]

In a Win for UK Antiquities Dealers, Britain Will Abandon the EU's Strict Regulations on Importing Cultural Heritage Now That It's Finalized Brexit

The European Union's regulations were conceived as a way to curb the illegal trafficking of cultural goods.

news.artnet.com

“I wouldn’t say the UK is rejecting the EU rule,” Dalton told Artnet News. “It is just not going to apply it, which it is within its rights to do now.”


Conceived as a way to curb the illegal trafficking of cultural goods, which had become a source of finance for terrorist organizations, the EU’s 2019 law requires a special license for importers, one that can only be obtained with proof that their wares were legally exported from the country of origin. Most significantly, the law granted European officials authority to “take any appropriate measure” in confiscating cultural goods imported without the proper documentation.

 

[Smangus]

Doesn't have to be, the UK government and the EU choose to add tax and duty to certain goods as they cross borders, equally they can choose for the rate of tax and duty to be zero should they wish.

True, but rates of tax/duty applied are distinct from the principles. Duty is an indirect tax whereas tariffs are charged for protectionist purposes and are direct taxes. Differing rates of each can be set, but duty and tariffs are different.

We can be in a tariff free area but duty, VAT etc can still be due. The point I am trying to make is that they are not the same whereas a lot of people assume that if we have a tariff free agreement with a trading block then that means no duty is charged. Whereas it maybe, depending on what class of goods/services are being imported and what rates are applicable in the UK.

When we were in the EU this did not matter as tax and duty were paid in the source country (generally) so if you bought something from France/Germany for example you paid 1 price and that was it, now we are out tax and duty are due at UK rates on importation.


ETA - one of the main (economic) arguments for Brexit was that we are free to set what duty rates we like, this might not be as easy as we think.

 

[brogdale]

This is what the useless cunt signed up to...

 

[Winot]

Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, said on Friday that disruption at Britain's border had not been "too profound" yet - but admitted: "It is the case that in the weeks ahead, we expect that there will be significant additional disruption - particularly on the Dover-Calais route."

Brexit: Michael Gove warns of 'significant disruption' at border as effects of trade change begin to be felt

A freight firm warns drivers that vehicles are being held up or turned away from Dover in Kent and Calais and Dunkirk in France.

news.sky.com

 

[brogdale]

Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, said on Friday that disruption at Britain's border had not been "too profound" yet - but admitted: "It is the case that in the weeks ahead, we expect that there will be significant additional disruption - particularly on the Dover-Calais route."

Brexit: Michael Gove warns of 'significant disruption' at border as effects of trade change begin to be felt

A freight firm warns drivers that vehicles are being held up or turned away from Dover in Kent and Calais and Dunkirk in France.

news.sky.com

Thank goodness it'll only be on the Dover-Calais route...can't be much stuff that moves via that crossing?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Thank goodness it'll only be on the Dover-Calais route...can't be much stuff that moves via that crossing?

Most of the UK’s trade with Europe goes on the Holyhead-Hamburg ferry, so this is no problem.

 

[ViolentPanda]

it's well known sir patrick spends

Usually into the open mouth of his footman.

 

[ska invita]

Northern Ireland

Brexit: Why are the shelves empty in some supermarkets?

Leading supermarkets confirm new Brexit arrangements are restricting supplies to Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk

Question is how temporary

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[ska invita]

An interesting bit from here

'I'm stuck here': lorry drivers in Calais begin to feel effects of Brexit

Truck drivers tell of long delays for checks at the Eurotunnel as trade barrier goes up between UK and EU

www.theguardian.com

is
"In normal times, 6,000 to 9,000 HGVs cross the Channel each day, but the Department for Transport said just over 2,000 HGVs crossed on 6 January"
...so yeah, still to be tested at regular capacity

 

[Supine]

Doesn't have to be, the UK government and the EU choose to add tax and duty to certain goods as they cross borders, equally they can choose for the rate of tax and duty to be zero should they wish.

Yeah. That was the single market. Relies countries agreeing to rules on regulations etc. Brexit in a nut shell.

 

[The39thStep]

A change from the pressing issues of paperwork and Spanish lettuces. Quite an interesting row breaking out in the EU over supply and distribution of the vaccine. Ireland been told tby the EU hat on no account can they source more vaccine despite stocks being low. Ireland were apparently looking for suppliers outside of the EU procurement arrangements . Meanwhile it appears that Denmark purchased 2.6m doses outside the EU programme. and Germany 30 million extra BioNTech/Pfizer doses outside of the EU procurement arrangements.

 

[Supine]

 

[gentlegreen]

A change from the pressing issues of paperwork and Spanish lettuces. Quite an interesting row breaking out in the EU over supply and distribution of the vaccine. Ireland been told tby the EU hat on no account can they source more vaccine despite stocks being low. Ireland were apparently looking for suppliers outside of the EU procurement arrangements . Meanwhile it appears that Denmark purchased 2.6m doses outside the EU programme. and Germany 30 million extra BioNTech/Pfizer doses outside of the EU procurement arrangements.

The EU seem to have been a bit crap in this key area - seriously embarrassing when it turns out there was some truth in the spin put out by Johnson and co. ...

 

[Pickman's model]

The EU seem to have been a bit crap in this key area - seriously embarrassing when it turns out there was some truth in the spin put out by Johnson and co. ...

if you lie as often as Johnson does then now and again something you say will come true, doesn't mean anything more than coincidence

 

[Pickman's model]

An interesting bit from here

'I'm stuck here': lorry drivers in Calais begin to feel effects of Brexit

Truck drivers tell of long delays for checks at the Eurotunnel as trade barrier goes up between UK and EU

www.theguardian.com

is
"In normal times, 6,000 to 9,000 HGVs cross the Channel each day, but the Department for Transport said just over 2,000 HGVs crossed on 6 January"
...so yeah, still to be tested at regular capacity

Perhaps this is the new regular capacity

 

[ska invita]

Brexit: Edwin Poots warns of job losses and food shortages

Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove says "work is ongoing" to improve trade from GB to NI.

www.bbc.co.uk

Poots has been a Brexit cheerleader btw:

Leave vote ‘good news’ for Northern Ireland – Edwin Poots

The DUP’s Edwin Poots has welcomed the UK's vote to leave the EU, stating it is “good news for the people of Northern Ireland”. “The citizens of the United Kingdom have voted to be a sovereign nation once again and a nation where democracy can be manifested as opposed to unelected appointed...

www.itv.com

this from 1st Jan 2021

DUP’s critics slam Poots as he hails Leave EU chief Arron Banks for Brexit efforts

DUP minister Edwin Poots has been criticised for thanking a leading Brexit campaigner for his efforts following the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union — even though his party voted against the deal.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Anyone know what Article 16 is that he mentions?

 

[brogdale]

Admit it remainiacs...old King Swivel has got you nailed this time!

 

[contadino]

View attachment 247931

Brexit: Edwin Poots warns of job losses and food shortages

Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove says "work is ongoing" to improve trade from GB to NI.

www.bbc.co.uk

Poots has been a Brexit cheerleader btw:

Leave vote ‘good news’ for Northern Ireland – Edwin Poots

The DUP’s Edwin Poots has welcomed the UK's vote to leave the EU, stating it is “good news for the people of Northern Ireland”. “The citizens of the United Kingdom have voted to be a sovereign nation once again and a nation where democracy can be manifested as opposed to unelected appointed...

www.itv.com

this from 1st Jan 2021

DUP’s critics slam Poots as he hails Leave EU chief Arron Banks for Brexit efforts

DUP minister Edwin Poots has been criticised for thanking a leading Brexit campaigner for his efforts following the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union — even though his party voted against the deal.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Anyone know what Article 16 is that he mentions?

Article 16 Safeguards
1. If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol
2. If a safeguard measure taken by the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, in accordance with paragraph 1 creates an imbalance between the rights and obligations under this Protocol, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may take such proportionate rebalancing measures as are strictly necessary to remedy the imbalance. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.
3. Safeguard and rebalancing measures taken in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be governed by the procedures set out in Annex 7 to this Protocol.

From https://assets.publishing.service.g...ised_Protocol_to_the_Withdrawal_Agreement.pdf
...although I don't really understand the implications wrt borders/GFA of pulling the rug unilaterally. I'm guessing it wouldn't bode well, though.

 

[Winot]

A useful thread on Article 16:

 

[ska invita]

From https://assets.publishing.service.g...ised_Protocol_to_the_Withdrawal_Agreement.pdf
...although I don't really understand the implications wrt borders/GFA of pulling the rug unilaterally. I'm guessing it wouldn't bode well, though.

thank you

so heres article 16
Article 16 Safeguards

1. If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.

2. If a safeguard measure taken by the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, in accordance with paragraph 1 creates an imbalance between the rights and obligations under this Protocol, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may take such proportionate rebalancing measures as are strictly necessary to remedy the imbalance. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.

3. Safeguard and rebalancing measures taken in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be governed by the procedures set out in Annex 7 to this Protocol.

4. Good luck with that

 

[platinumsage]

The EU seem to have been a bit crap in this key area - seriously embarrassing when it turns out there was some truth in the spin put out by Johnson and co. ...

A good if rather gloating summary in the Spectator:

The EU has botched its vaccination programme

It was the most excruciating moment of Ursula von der Leyen’s short tenure as President of the European Commission. On Friday morning she hastily put together a press conference to counter the growing media storm across Europe over the EU’s handling of vaccine procurement. She doubled down on...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Supine]

Hundreds of jobs face axe as chemical firm moves production to France

BASF will not restart its plant - which makes plastic car parts - at Seal Sands, putting 90 workers and 300 contractors at risk

www.gazettelive.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

A good if rather gloating summary in the Spectator:

The EU has botched its vaccination programme

It was the most excruciating moment of Ursula von der Leyen’s short tenure as President of the European Commission. On Friday morning she hastily put together a press conference to counter the growing media storm across Europe over the EU’s handling of vaccine procurement. She doubled down on...

www.spectator.co.uk

Putting Brexit and the specifics of the EU aside for a moment I think this is an interesting case - the final paragraph captures the issue:

" Perhaps the most important lesson is this: the EU is governed by the idea that bigger is always better, and that co-operation is always better than competition. But it is clear that when it comes to creating and rolling out vaccines, that is far from true. "

The principle of bulk buying so as to avoid Vaccine Nationalism is a sound one -there is every danger the smaller/poorer countries will miss out on the vaccines, and it doesn't seem fair the market chooses who gets a relatively scarce but vital resource. As a rule i do think co-operation is nearly always better than competition, certainly so in this case, in theory.

And yet its clearly a fuck up, and its hard to know for certain exactly what went wrong. Looks like a degree of human error? But I wouldn't be surprised if its true that an overly large bureaucracy is part of the problem.

What is the ideal size of a political unit of governance? is it possible to regularly do things collectively across an area the size and population of Europe?
Id like to think it is.... not with the same political structure that the EU has of course, but still... I think the principle here is correct and the Spectator may be happy to see the market working well for Britain (for this moment at least - Britain's supply might yet run dry sooner than expected), but there's no mention of who loses out in this moment of near global need when its left to the inter-national market.

 

[2hats]

Id like to think it is.... not with the same political structure that the EU has of course, but still... I think the principle here is correct and the Spectator may be happy to see the market working well for Britain (for this moment at least - Britain's supply might yet run dry sooner than expected), but there's no mention of who loses out in this moment of near global need when its left to the inter-national market.

If other countries can not reach appropriate vaccine driven immunity levels then this will of course become a problem for those countries that have been been in a privileged position to already do so.

 

[teqniq]

Unfuckingbelievable:

UK ‘rejected offer’ of visa-free tours by musicians in EU, despite blaming Brussels for permit blow

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

beat me to it grrr