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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

Yeah, it needs the south to actually want the north back, but it’s clear that currently Westminster is happy to see it go.
I should have finished what I meant to write (posting in the middle of the night is fraught) The custom border doesn't change anything much for the north, in fact being politically in the UK and economically part of an all Ireland economy, The EU and the UK is win win for unionists. Economically secure with a vast array of funding available via Dublin/EU and London. The middle class unionists will happily have both passports, and already ignore the border. I don't see how any of these arrangements will win WC loyalists away from their attachment to the Queen and see their interests lie with the South. As for Westminster, WC loyalist distrust and fear it as much as anyone else, they've always looked over the their shoulder fearing an English sell out.

I agree Westminster wants rid. The south officially wants a united Ireland and the population of the south wants it too. The sticking point is that there would have to be significant change in both parts and Scotland for it to happen.
 
Scotland gives the (5%) proceeds to women's charities and Ireland charges 0% for reasons. The Tories were supposed to be lobbying the EU to exempt it but obviously stopped giving a fuck about that some time ago. Now it's offered up as a great success of Brexit.
They rejected an amendment to some bill or other that would have reduced it to zero a few months ago, didn’t they?
 
You sure on this, I didn't think it aligned the north with Dublin in such a manner?
Not immediately but In time Dublin will be pushed by the northern executive to make a case for it. The all Ireland economy gives Dublin more clout in the north, gives the north a voice in Europe.
 


Apparently the EU is bringing in similar changes itself.

I really hope this isn't the case.. It looks like it is though. . :mad: in my work we import some items from Germany that you can't get in the UK. They already stopped supplying us last October, awaiting new rules.
 
Not immediately but In time Dublin will be pushed by the northern executive to make a case for it. The all Ireland economy gives Dublin more clout in the north, gives the north a voice in Europe.

Ah, yes if we are fortunate enough to get a united Ireland the resulting larger economy will definitely benefit the north, however I can't see that happening without a united country.
 
I really hope this isn't the case.. It looks like it is though. :mad:

The EU is doing the same thing this summer, however obviously jumping through those hoops gives access to the entire market which is enough to warrant the expense.
 
being politically in the UK and economically part of an all Ireland economy, The EU and the UK is win win for unionists.
That's a short term view.. What happens once our buccaneer rulers start diverging from the level playing field? The contradiction becomes more contradictory... It'll be a slow process but the possibility for the border arrangement to become untenable is there, leading to a choice between one or other having to be made
 
That's a short term view.. What happens once our buccaneer rulers start diverging from the level playing field? The contradiction becomes more contradictory... It'll be a slow process but the possibility for the border arrangement to become untenable is there, leading to a choice between one or other having to be made

The Republic is already saying they'll sponsor some Norn things for the EU so the more involved the Republic gets the more normalised a united Ireland will be.

The unionists should be happy for a while because Norn is essentially a grift as it is, lot of money there from the UK for such a small place and there will be Irish money flowing in to.
 
It doesn't matter how many people voted for what. The govt decided that stopping freedom of movement was part of what Brexit should deliver and this has hardly been a secret. Therefore there should be no mystery about why Gibraltar can be in the Schengen zone but GB not.
 
Judging by personal visceral experience, my view is that brexit voters hate foreigners, and the vote has provided a platform for a greater and more visible and less ashamed expressions of that hatred.
Leaving aside that all of the 'reasoned' arguments for brexit as in economics, sovereignty, borders, fish (!), laws or whatever have been shown to be false what seems to be left is a raw hatred of foreigners.
The visceral level for me is to do with my family. My wife is Chinese, my son born in Lewisham hospital is mixed race. Prior to the brexit vote he would probably get racist abuse about twice a month. Immediately following the referendum result he would be abused at least once a day for about three months, then things settled down to racist abuse three or four times a week.
Additionally on his commute to London Bridge he would intervene in racist abuse incidents regularly. Brexit empowered this change in our experience in my view.
One memorable incident (shortly before covid) was meeting a bloke in a social setting, shaking hands, chatting, and then the man became curious about my sons different look. When my son said he was half Chinese the man got hand sanitiser out, made a show of using it, then turned his back ghosting my son.
This is in tolerant multi cultural London. I dread to imagine the experience some other have elsewhere.
 
I'm not even sure it was even a majority of a majority for whom it was about immigration, it was a significant number but it was a hotch potch of different things.

Theres a whole strand of issues that caused it, deprevation, poverty, inequality, feeling left behind or ignored by Westminster and GDP, communities hollowed out by capitalism and cheap labour, all of which have been constantly blamed on immigration by UKIP and the media, then the issues were stripped of nuance and blamed entirely on racism by huge chunks of the press when the result was in.
 
It doesn't matter how many people voted for what. The govt decided that stopping freedom of movement was part of what Brexit should deliver and this has hardly been a secret. Therefore there should be no mystery about why Gibraltar can be in the Schengen zone but GB not.

It was news to me that different areas of UK overesas territory can have different deals re Brexit. For Gibraltar to be in Schengen area and UK not. The future of Gibraltar is now with Spain and EU not UK. This is going to have long term consquences.

I did assume Brexit meant end of FofM but now looked at it more and seen the deal with Gibraltar nothing to stop future government joining the Schengen area in theory. Beginning of Brexit issue there was idea of Norway plus model.

Goes to show that effectively May/ right of Tory party and Boris have made sure what its legitimate to see as a "real" Brexit.

Case of Norway has been brought up.They had referendum to join EU and this was not agreed. They are in EEA and EFTA ( founder members) and Schengen area.

Different economy to UK but they have compromise between those who want to be in EU and those who don't but want a looser relationhip with EU- who are major trading partner ( energy)

Maybe I have not been keeping up with all this imo the present deal of this government is not written in stone. Future governments could revisit aspects of Brexit.

Whether the "leave means leave" section of Uk will have that is another matter.

If the Brexit campaign had said they would keep FofM after Brexit I would have been tempted to support that.
 
It was news to me that different areas of UK overesas territory can have different deals re Brexit. For Gibraltar to be in Schengen area and UK not.

I did assume Brexit meant end of FofM but now looked at it more and seen the deal with Gibraltar nothing to stop future government joining the Schengen area in theory. Beginning of Brexit issue there was idea of Norway plus model.

Goes to show that effectively May/ right of Tory party and Boris have made sure what its legitimate to see as a "real" Brexit.

Case of Norway has been brought up.They had referendum to join EU and this was not agreed. They are in EEA and EFTA ( founder members) and Schengen area.

Different economy to UK but they have compromise between those who want to be in EU and those who don't but want a looser relationhip with EU- who are major trading partner ( energy)

Maybe I have not been keeping up with all this imo the present deal of this government is not written in stone. Future governments could revisit aspects of Brexit.

Whether the "leave means leave" section of Uk will have that is another matter.

If the Brexit campaign had said they would keep FofM after Brexit I would have been tempted to support that.
If the leave campaign had said they'd keep fofm they'd have lost much of the racist vote
 
If the leave campaign had said they'd keep fofm they'd have lost much of the racist vote

Though I was having a chat with Brexit friend few weeks ago( not keen on immigration) on lot of issues we agreed- EU stopping "state aid/ democratic governments should be able to run economy and not be stopped by undemocraticc EU ( greece). So there was common ground.
 
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Though I was having a chat with Brexit friend ( not keen on immigration) on lot of issues we agreed- EU stopping "state aid/ democratic governments should be able to run economy and not be stopped by undemocraticc EU ( greece). So there were common issues.
The leave campaign appealed to people's basest instincts but the remain campaign didn't make what to me were obvious points, namely that there were flaws in the EU but these might only be addressed by remaining within the union and working for reform. Foremost among the many weaknesses of the remain campaign was a refusal to see the EU as anything but perfect even tho Cameron had tried to get some changes just months earlier. So much might have been different if Cameron had called a referendum prior to his negotiations with the eu, asking 'should the UK remain within an unreformed eu' and then telling Brussels that without changes the UK might leave. By his going cap in hand without a mandate for change he ensured he'd get crumbs and not one of the fine Belgian waffles
 
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